I'm collecting parts for my 30 coupe and would really like to do things once. I have an 8ba flatty and a 39 3 speed. I would love to have a quick change but the money tree issuing out so I'm going with a banjo and closed torque tube. My question is what rear end should I look for to get a good cruising gear for the flathead? Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
7:50 rear tires and a 3:54 ratio will let you cruise about +/- 2200 RPM right at a Flatty Happy Spot between 65-70 mph. All the best, Tim
Aren't the 3:54's rare and pricey? That's what I have heard. Just wondering how available those rears are?
Around here we can buy T-5's for under $100 at Pull-a-Part yards. The overdrive would get you the cruising speed you are after, even with a 3:78 gear in the banjo. (which are the most common) It will cost every bit of that and more to repair the '39 box the first time you break it. Look for a rear from an early F1 so you can get an open drive and you're almost there. Then later you can upgrade to the the quickchange if you want to.
The T5 and a Flathead are a good combination. Does not do the mileage very much good but keeping up with traffic is very easy. If you are a friend has a lathe you can make make your own open drive line conversion for around a $100. Dwight Gibbon sells a adapter plate at a reasonable price. Please do not ask for the part numbers to make the open drive, I threw the boxes away. The parts house, Bayshore Equip. sold me the yoke and a seal to fit the yoke for under $75. The banjo rear end has a 1/4 inch pin or bolt that holds the coupler to the pinion shaft. Take a torque tube and cut it about 5/8 of a inch behind the 1/4 in hole. Chuck the short torque tube in the lathe and square your cut up. Take a piece of 3/8" steel and turn it to fit in the torque tube, tack weld it and check to see if it is close to being square with the torque tube flange. If it is square weld it up, bore hole for your seal leaving some material for the seal to bottom against. You have just built a open drive line conversion! Now when you find that QC you are half way there. Good Luck
Regardless of the ratio you end up with, the flathead, 39 trans and torque tube banjo with buggy spring will be easy to connect to each other and look nice together. 3.78 is definitely more common. Early rears are 4.1 The torque tube configuration better suits how the original ch***is was designed. If you change to an open rear you need to consider how and where the loads are being carried to the ch***is. The banjo torque tube and internal drive shaft will need to be shortened. Without getting into the years, some drive shafts are 6 spline 1" solid shaft, some are a 10 spline tube. I think the tubes are easier to shorten and give you a stronger end product. Again, without getting into the years, some banjo rears are wider than others. Some pinions are 6 spline, some are 10 spline, made to match the shaft. Once it's in there save your money and you can always purchase a Winters quick change kit and convert it later. The Winters kit will come the center section and “a choice of gears”, so no need to worry about what you start out with now if you are just getting it on the road. The Winters pinion is available either 6 or 10 spline so it will work with either drive shaft. You will need the original bells, axles and spider gears that come in the original banjo you purchase now.
i have 3:78's in my model a and they are a little on the low side... im going to buy speedways gear set of 3:54. cheaper than a quick change and thats a good all around gear IMOP
Spadaros themselves will advise that other than aesthetics, a quick change is a pricey waste unless you need and use the gear change housing for racing or ????.
i was going to use a QC so that i can throw some high gears in it and go for a road trip down south or somewhere.. but the $$ amount just is not worth it.
We are building hot rods here. What practical purpose do any of them have other than to look cool? But now that you mention it, the quick change makes for any easy swap of gears when hot rodding around town vs. driving it on a long haul to an event far away. I like to do both. I'd put $1500 in rear instead of $10G in a paint job any day, but that's a matter of personal preference.
But then it will be a Mod. Rod or Street Rod not a "Traditional Hot Rod". S-10's were not available back then, quick changes were. Hot Rods have Flatheads, Street Rods have Chevy's ..... love that saying.
OK, Here's the deal on the S-10 swap versus a closed drive 3:54 Ratio. S-10 open drive much easier to get trans in/out better gears due to modern O/D trans. But- you have to make a whole new rear end set-up to take the open drive aspect. Yes you can use the stock spring but that's about it. You either have to get a ladder bar, 4-link, or hairpin set-up to take the loads from removing the torque tube. Closed drive 3:54's are alot easier/simpler in the long run. You just swap the gears and go. Ford Banjos are really easy to put together and they are tough as nails. But-3:54 gears are a little hard to find and can be expensive. Well worth it though. Wait isn't there a guy making adapters from the Jeep T-5 to closed dirveline? If you have the cash this is the way to go. All the good stuff with OD. Yes I know T-5's aren't traditional, but when the guy gets down on his hands and knees to inspect your traditional car kick him square in the ***. It'll cure that right away. A good point is made for the QC. They have been around since Hot Rodding began +/-. I have a QC in my '33. You know how many times I've changed the gears? Once. I leave the final drive ratio in it. Yep, it's a 3:54 set. I can't imagine a Hot Rodder from 50 years ago not using a T-5. It all boils down to how much fun you want to have and how much you can afford to pay for. A good T-5 set up can run you as much as a QC when you figure all the parts and engineering involved from clutch to Rear U joint and all the suspension mods and it won't be as high on the cool factor. Happy Holidays, Tim
Just my humble opinion..... I've run both 3.54 and 3.78 in a bunch of cars. I like the 3.78 better in an all around sense. The 3.54 were used by Ford in basically "flat land" cars, Midwest etc. They are a bit anemic in both out of the hole and climbing hills. The 3.78 do wind a bit higher but in the long run, they just feel better to me. I wouldn't run 4.11 on anything except a very short distance car. I've easily made 250 mi. runs with 3.78, no complaints. Nothing I drive has decent gas mileage anyway. Like I said, just my opinion!
My AV8 banjo set up is as follows 36 diff housing, new 3:54 gears from Speedway, complete bearing kit from Hot Rod Works and weld on perches from Pete/Jakes that I modified "pinched" to fit the banjo housings. The perches where tig welded all the way around the tube to prevent warpage. New bearing races pressed onto the hub ends of the axle housings. 34 torque tube and driveshaft which we shortened and machined the correct end of a 6/10 spline adapter to press inside the driveshaft. Model T rear spring with the eyes reversed (spring was to long) and cute little shims welded into the crossmember to accommodate the difference in arch between the spring and crossmember. Lastly I think they are 40 Ford front shocks with the arms tweaked and 36 Ford spring eyes welded to the perches to pick up the shock links. Shocks rebuilt by Bill Wzorek. If I did this again I'd just weld on the perches and NOT worry about rebuilds, tall gears or anything until there was evidence of a problem as all in it adds up with regards to cost and time.
I've ran Model A rearends behind flatheads twice with no problems, the bearings and axles are the same size as a V8 rearend but the ring and pinion is smaller. they will hold up, you will shear the axle key or break an axle before you break the gears. Snyders Antique Auto sells rear gear sets, has 3:25, 3:54 and 3:78, just put 3:78 in the rearend on a flathead powered coupe I'm building.
Yes it is Dwight Bond in Gibbon. As the cost of a T5 being close to a quick change I would argue that all day long. At the time I built my car Mr. Bond charged $100 for the adapter plate. I made a tube to fit on the T5 so that I could use the early Ford throw out bearing, new bearing $35. Chevy pressure plate to fit early Ford clutch $45. Clutch pilot bushing $20. As stated in my first post the complete pinion yoke, seal and shorten drive shaft was under $200 if I remember correctly. Swap meet T5 $175. Made my own pedals and mechanical linkage for clutch. I believe that totals $575. Lets say I am a big BS er and the cost was a $1000 that still is cheaper then a QC. The argument over hot rod or street rod is one point I will not argue either way. I do not think my car is a street rod, you be the judge on that.
I thought if you used a 4x4 s10 t5 you could keep the torque tube and not have to box the frame etc? **** spadaro qc is 1500$ You add the 38-40 banjo cut torque tube etc. so cheap to look so cool,and that sweet gear music,the only way to get that with s10 is bad bearings!
I too have made an open drive similar to this. Stock Ford Heavy Duty Three speed output yoke and seal are what you want. About a '48-'50 piece from a truck. All the best, Tim
There are lot of 3.78 and 4.11 banjo rear ends out there. You want to get a '39 or '40 as the '42 - '48 are too wide. You can always buy a loaded 3.54 R&P set from speedway.
That's a great car and the lines get a little blurry that's for sure. Sure a T5 that you can't see doesn't make that big a difference to some people. Maybe the "tradional hot rod" catagory should be thought of more like "period hot rod". For instance, and I'm not trying to be an ***, look at the yellow T above. Cool car, nice work and probably a lot of fun to drive and a lot of work to build. Now, look at the reference pics in the "guidelines" thread at the top of the forum, the TRADITIONAL HOT RODS forum. I just did. I couldn't spot an alternator, electric fan or radial tires on any of those cars. You won't spot any of those on my car either. I want the whole experience of driving a 50's built car the way it would have been then. Not an updated kinda sorta version. Will some people think I'm an idiot seeking out 70-80 year old parts to use when there are better more modern parts that will work better. Yep and I'm ok with that. The OP just asked a question about banjos, quick changes etc and got bombarded with "put a T5 in it". To me, reading the other parts he collected, it doesn't seem that he wanted to use modern parts. He wanted to figure out how to do it with old stuff. I think that's pretty cool. That's my 2¢ and you know what that's worth.
I have 4:11 rear in mine and will be swapping out to 3:54 or quickchange as soon as I have money or find the right one. I have a rebuilt mild flathead, 39 trans 7.0x16 rear tires and it is fun around town but really can't get above 50 without high rpms. Got it up to 70 and that is the limit. I would try and find 3:78 or 3:54 ratio. Just my 2 cents. edit: as for the T5, I plan to go that route on my next car. There is a good thread on here with a 4x4 T5 adapted to a torque tube.
Well stated. I agree that a T5 would not fit within the guidelines of this Forum for "traditional" With that being said traditional isn't always the most user friendly or practical. I still have a huge appreciation for those that can keep a car 100% traditional.
They used to sell GETZ gears at speedway and the sets were made in ITALY at the same factory that made gears for Ferrari..... I don't have a problem with that.
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