Tin is also a non-ferrous metal, I'm not really interested in this turning into a science lesson, all I asked was there something to be aware of. I am going to try out some different ideas on some s**** and will post the results. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Thank You, now we are on to something, I sent a note to him, I'll post his response once I get it. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Actually I did Google it and got all sorts if conflicting information, so I thought I would start here. I have gotten few suggestions of who to ask for follow up, I have also had a few try to give me an incorrect science lesson. Yes, the body is staying bare metal, so Bondo is out. There is some leading done at seams of the steel portion of the body, there are a couple if tricky spots in the aluminium sections that I was wondering about leading. Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
If you can't get at the back side it's a problem. Best way is to cut out the bad section, use 3003 Aluminum, make a new section regardless, 3003 welds well. It can be shaped to suit by hammer and dolly shaping. That's the way Indy car builders do it, give it a try.
http://www.alumaloy.org/ This is what I was talking about, worth a try on s**** pc, seems it would be all about correct heat temp
Used some of that "aluminum solder" to patch a fuel tank , worked fine to patch the tank but turned dark grey after a short time , guessing it has a high zinc content ??? dave
I've used this before on aluminum injection molds, mostly 7075-T6, but it will work on about any aluminum out there, I believe. THIS is where I'd start. Works with a propane torch. It should work with about any kind of torch. It works about like solder.
Kent White has some good videos on working aluminum. A buddy has used some of Kents special alloy welding rod with good results.
AH, I knew I wasn't crazy, I saw a french bodyman who used to work for Lecoq in Cali leading aluminum, I can't remember what he used for "tining" the panel though but there is a way... I've met many bodymen who wouldn't believe me that it was possible to gas weld aluminum until I did it in front of them... It's not because it's unheard of (at least for you) that it's impossible. Anyway it's probably easier to glue bolts for use as a dent puller like Pimpin Paint said.
I want to see the guy who can get tin/lead body solder to stick to an aluminum body panel. I'm calling ******** on this. It won't work. You might be able to stick a gob of lead on with Krazy Glue or some stupid **** like that. But if you want to use lead to fill dents in an aluminum body, forget it.
Have to remember what the OP is trying to acheive. No bondo , same aluminum look. I have no doubt that lead cannot be bonded to aluminum using lead in the lead flux process, so with that, hypotheticaly if you did the two pcs would not be of the same tint, because lead is iron and aluminum is aluminum. When and if Lazzee or this person in Lecoq pipes in I believe they will say they were using an aluminum alloy to melt onto the panel
What about spray metal? I've used it to build up steel shafts, but I know you can get many different alloys including babbet, so aluminum should be available
AWS (American Welding Society) says it is possible to solder aluminum. http://www.aws.org/w/a/wj/2004/02/046/index.html But the alloys aren't usually lead based. Tin (Sn) or zinc (Zn) look to be typical ingredients. Eastwood says their auotbody solder Item #31127 is 70% "lead" and 30% tin.
Does anybody remember the HRM/Tex Smith XR-6? The one with the aluminum slant 6, Webers and aluminum body? '...I called Hagemann in Northern California to see if he could form the body in aluminum. "Sure," he replied "cost you about two grand." Wow, power enough and very lightweight. Great road car. Day said not so, because the model company had a contract with George Barris, and I'd need to have him do the car. "But," I moaned, "George does everything with lead. The car will weigh a ton plus!" Anyway, the car ended up at George's shop in North Hollywood, with much of the work being done by **** Dean. Later **** told me, "I know George promised we wouldn't use lead in the car. So, we would do all the work at night so you wouldn't catch us. We really loaded it up with lead filler, and kept it in primer every day so you wouldn't notice." Later on, when we were doing a photo shoot of the car and frame behind the PPC offices, it took seven guys to remove the body. I knew then just how much lead had been used. Actually, it worked out okay with the extra weight making the coilovers operate much better..." Read more: http://www.streetrodderweb.com/milestones/0302sr_xr6_hot_rod_project_car/#ixzz2oW61tsVF
It must be possible. I was working in a shop that was restoring a 31 Cad V16 body and was surprised to see both steel and aluminium used on the body panels from new. On the aluminium rear tub it had definately been leaded, (or at least there was a different alloy used as a filler over the aluminium). It did appear to have been original but anything could have happened in 80 years. Unfortunately I didn't work on it directly. It wasn't removed and remained on the car.
contrary to what the experts on here tell you.. leading aluminium will work. remove the aluminium oxide (which lead/tin won't stick to) & prevent it recurring (this happens almost almost immediately) by using light motor oil or similar... this video shows the process using a soldering iron but you'll get the idea. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmjdXKyDEWY use a low temp torch & body solder with a higher tin content to reduce the galvanic corrosion potential.
I checked the Fastin flux made by Soudetam that we use here for leading, there is one that is 100% tin that they sell for leading aluminum, stainless and bronze http://www.soudetam.com/anglais/structure0.html scroll down to the bottom of the page Maybe not so much ******** after all. Early this year I was saying ******** to a Fronius sells rep when he was telling me about welding aluminum and steel together and not brazing ... until he showed me a sample.
Custom coach builders in the '20's & '30's leaded the aluminum on their custom bodies. I've seen it. I've been told they used mercury to "tin" the aluminum. I'm sure OSHA would have a field day with that !!!
Hey, " traditional '' tinning compound for leading, the old " Dutchboy '' brand that looked like grey sand, and would tin solder over jus 'bout anything, contained mercury It was outlawed, here in the states, decades ago. Given the temp at which carbon steel melts, and that at which 3003 or 6061 melts, I'd buy you could solder steel to aluminum with an alloy, but not ''weld'' the two together. " Do not reach greedily for the Kool-Aid "
They do speak about brazing steel and Aluminum, but they also speak about welding: just 5 years ago it was just science fiction... http://www.fronius.com/cps/rde/xchg...nal/hs.xsl/79_23609_ENG_HTML.htm#.UrxhgPYVyt8 Unfortunatly a lot of new welding processes for funky stuff is for robots only...
I've seen aluminum soldered with a tin/lead solder before (years ago) but the difference in oolor was very obvious and the solder oxidized very quickly which made the fill even more obvious. It can be done but I don't think it would be a good filler for a natural finish aluminum body. Dave.
When they refer to tinning the sheetmetal, you do not actually put tin on the panel. It is basically a solder that is spread onto the bad spots on the panel. Then the lead is applied to fill the low spots. You can't get solder to adhear to aluminum no matter what you do. It will just not work. Your only choice is to hammer out the dents if you want the aluminum look. There is no sense in even trying this on your project
Even if you could bond (definitly not weld) lead to aluminum I would really wonder about the expansion rate of each material as the panel warms and cools. I would say the only sure thing is make new panels.
No it won't work if you don't use the correct material for what you're trying to do @Pimpin, the ****roen is on the back burner for now, I got distracted by a mild custom 58 Renault Fregate and a hemi powered 32 Ford, I think I have ADD
I just heard back from Lazze, yes in fact he has done it, however there is a special flux needed, he bought some about 25 years ago, can't remember the name and doesn't have much left. So, I am now on the hunt for the flux. If anyone knows a place to look, I'm all ears.
The Jalopy Journal
