I mixed my first batch yesterday. 40 gallons of water to 5 pounds of citric acid. So far so good. I have some backing plates and a firewall soaking now. I wire brushed after 6 hours and I am pleased with the results. Some of the smaller parts are already rust free after the wire brushing. I will post some pics when I pull them out. Thanks "58 wagon" for the advise.... I am planning on using a baking soda wash then Prep-n-etch.
"32 deuce Just looked through your album on your three window. WOW!!! Was that built from THAT? Was it as bad as it looks from the pictures? I now have renewed hope that I will be able to get mine together. Anymore pictures (close-ups) of the parts? That would have been a neat build thread. Norm
Away to remember the safe way to add acid to water. When you added distilled water to the car battery years past was (WRONG). So remember never do what we did with car batteries. Ago
I'm coming to the conclusion that I'll need to neutralize the citrus after the dip with baking soda and before treating with Prep-n-Etch. I'm thinking i'll use a two gallon weed sprayer. Can anyone give me a mix ratio? 1/2 box to two gallons???? The guys that use vinegar should know. I'm also working on a fix for the pinch weld issues. Norm
After 4 days soaking.... took them out, wire brushed them and hosed them off with a standard pressure nozzle, the rust just rinsed off like washing mud off your tires, pretty amazing. I mixed a half box of baking soda to about 2 gallons of water and rinsed them off to neutralize the citric acid. Once they were dried, I primed the firewall and rattle canned the backing plates. I am pleased with the results. First time trying this citric acid. I realized there was a lot of original paint still on the backing plates...
Qualified [B.Sc (Biochem)] 18 years ago. Been working in serious Industrial Chemistry since I was 14 years old. One of the top chemical cleaning guys in Australia. Spend all day every day fixing Industrial Chemistry challenges that "nobody" could fix.... Whenever I make comments on safety on one of these 'back yard acid stripping' threads I get shot down and insulted, so now I just get a giggle at the "Oooops I rusted out/blew up my whole garage and put myself in hospital threads. If I may dare to suggest, If you do not understand how acid will continue working, especially in seams etc until neutralised. See the fresh rust around the porous welds on Mudgy's Holden V8 extractor pictures, even after he has 'diligently neutralised' the item, as case study #1 that stronger acids (muriatic etc) are not 'caustic' since they are not alkali that acidic etch-prep will not neutralise another acid the effect temperature has on reaction speed. that $13 pH meters are not accurate closer than +/- 2.0 pH units that safety warnings are vital when writing a 'dummy's guide' That perhaps, you might not be the best person to be publicly presenting a How-To article on acid cleaning of precious metals. Pre-empting the storm of "I did this last week and my parts are fine" comments and PMs I will receive, send me pix in 5 years and we'll discuss it.......
mark, i didnt read the whole thread, what would you suggest for rust removal shown in the last couple posts, that is safe for home use, ive built a few cars in my day, most of which were media blasted, then self etched...my next build id like to use a rust converter, wire wheel, rust nuetralizer of some type...instead of media blasting...I appreciate your thoughts
Mark, your quote? There's no "I" in team, yet lots of them in "Individual brilliance"!!! I found the I in team:
I couldn't help but share that little tidbit. But seriously, this is a great thread. Thanks to all who have and are contributing.
Mark I appreciate the comments. The reasoning behind this thread was to explore ways to clean metals for my projects. This is a site dedicated to sharing knowledge so in that vain I gathered the information I could find and tried adding to it in this forum. I note the level of your education and your expertise. It would, perhaps, be more helpful if you climbed down off your lofty perch and got your hands dirty with the rest of us. A couple of your points: Acid into water - Yah, not good. As the crystals dissolved they create a light mist that caused a slight irritation to the back of my hands. I washed them and used hand creme and they were fine in the morning. Reminded me of the after affects of washing my hands in gasoline in the old days, but not as bad. Not knowing how to neutralize - That is part of the "gaining knowledge" thing. Ten dollar PH meter - We're not doing a scientific study here. What we need is to find relative values and see how hold up over time. It's "good enough". The bottom line is I think I would rather use Molasses, but I live in town and the neighbors will not allow the smell. I think citric acid is a good alternative and as soon as I get the neutralization thing down I'll be happy. Norm
When was the last time you heard of a car body being acid-dipped? Why has the whole industry moved away to media blasting? Essentially - don't put acid anywhere that you don't know how to get it back out of. If you really must acid clean parts (small, non-cast parts), use naval jelly - still an acid, but at least you can control where it goes and doesn't go. If parts are too complicated for that, use the slowest acting process you can find - ie. molasses. Neutralise with a 'soft' alkali, such as Sodium Bicarb solution. Or skip the mess and just pay the guy $20 to soda blast them......
Its in response to all of the useless turds I come across in Industry that use the 'team' excuse to try to cover for them not having the basic required skills that their licence/qualifications say they should have. You'll never win without a team effort, but you won't win with a team full of losers either.....
Mark Sodium Bycarb. Way to go thats adding to the conversation. Could you tell me how much to a gallon of water? I don't think soda blasting is going to help much with the crap I'm working with. Most of it is solid rust and that means in the pinch welds and fold-overs. I'm looking for answers for those problems. I'm currently experimenting with "Penetrol" and seeing if it's ability to "creep" into the cracks and crevices will help with the "rust blowing up" in the future issue. I applied a small amount to the inside of a door fold-over seam and it did "creep" to the outside. What are your thoughts?
This is very true. An easy way to remember which to add to which, that I learned some where, is A to W, like the alphabet. Works for me.
'32 duece How did that baking soda mix work? How did you arrive at the half box to two gallon figure? Did you spray it or ?? The "washing the mud off the tires" comment was exactly the way it looked to me. Washed them off on the grass. Didn't seem to affect it at all. Norm
Well, so far so good.... I just used some ol' hillbilly engineering and came up with the ratio for the baking soda. I just used a car wash brush and really soaked and brushed the parts with the baking soda wash. I dipped the smaller parts in the 5 gallon bucket with the soda wash. Afterwards, I hosed everything off really well with a high pressure hose nozzle. I used the air hose and blew the water off and set them next to my stove in the shop till they were good and dry, then primed and painted. I hope I don't have any rust issues later, like the chemist was talking about, but I am willing to deal with it. I'm no chemist, but I sure hope that acid neutralized,,,, lol
Norm I used a 1/4 box of baking soda to about a 5 gallon tub. I'm just guessing as to the mix ratio as is 32 duece I'm assuming. I let my small parts sit in there for a few minutes and the larger stuff like my dash and visor I use a cup and poor the water on to them in the tub as best I can. I too am interested in learning a proper mix ratio Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
I would also like to hear from mark about his thoughts on proper baking soda to water ratios and maybe a standard dip time ie how many minutes/hours he suggests or is the first dip instantaneous to neutralize the acid? Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
I'm not positive on this, but I think I would treat with Prep-n-Etch after I neutralized with baking soda. It might not matter if you paint right away. Norm
Just did my brake/clutch pedal assembly today. This stuff works great. I am painting as soon as I dry it off after the baking soda wash. Grille shell is soaking now... Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
I just recently heard that Insurance companys will not cover any Warranties on paintwork if the car was Soda blasted.Apparantly it leaves some type of film on the metal,and causes it to craze!
Your base solution should be able to penetrate anywhere the acid went so if your blow dry the crevices and then add the soda solution a large part of the acid should be neutralized and seal the cracks to stop the oxygen in the air from reaching them--you might even blow the soda solution through to be sure
I made up a batch of citric acid and dipped a few things. I let the next items sit on the bottom of the tank forgot about them for a few days. I pulled them out and found a yellow sludge on the bottom of the tank coving my stuff. PITA to wire wheel off? Any ideas?
I used Vinegar to clean this plate. I got in a hurry and should have soaked it longer but I neutralized it in hot water with dishwashing soap and towel dried and into a warm oven. This is an early '57-'58 Arkansas plate vs. a later plate. The #'s are different.
The Jalopy Journal
