For the past six months I have had a hard time shifting. When I bought the car, I was told the clutch had 500 miles and it was replaced 12 years ago. Motor is a 51 239 tranny is a stock 37 which was told it was also rebuilt. 50 year ownership prior to mine. I have been a guest here for quite some time, today I decided to register and ask for help. I dropped the transmission this morning trying to get to the clutch and see what is really going on. This is a video of the input shaft and its play: http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/IMG_2093_zps8fa73cce.mp4.html I am not sure if this is normal or not, but my gut feeling tells me it is not. I didn't get to the clutch, as I had to get the girls from school. I work tomorrow and the next few days and will not get to it till next week... The tip of the input shaft rests into the pilot bearing. With all this play I can't imagine how it will look, or even if I will be able to remove it. I am guessing the input shaft was not perfectly aligned and I am just hoping it did not damage the case. The Service manual for the 37 mentions a sliding sleeve over the splined input shaft. I did not see one, neither one fell underneath the car when I removed the transmission. Here is a picture of the bellhousing: <a href="http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/IMG_2095_zpsea721788.jpg.html" target="_blank"></a> <a href="http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/IMG_2094_zps1b280c8a.jpg.html" target="_blank"></a> There was oil in the tail cone, I did not open the top case to see inside, but I don't keep my hopes high. As far as driving, there was no clutch slippage, no burnt smell, I just could not get the clutch to completely release. Something was not letting the input shaft stop spinning and now I think I can guess what. Rear end has 3.53 gears, I am showing 50 mph at 2000 rpm, 55 mph at 2300 and 60 at 3200. Tires are 215/75/15. Hopefully someone (Danny?) will shed some light into this. 10 spline input shaft, 21 spline output. 10" clutch, 3 adjustable release levers, 9 pressure springs. Car has been converted to 12V and flywheel seems to be new. Will count the teeth when I get back from work for more info. I know a lot of people love the high RPM motors including myself, but this old girl, to me, is right at home with her 80 HP @ 3800 rpm. What I thought was the problem, (the clutch) turns to be something else. I will be waiting to hear from you guys see what my options are at this point. Motor runs good, has good compression and just 4000 miles on the rebuilt. For now I just want to sort the transmission issue out and find out what my options are. I am open to all suggestions though. Thanks for your help... <a href="http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/2_zpscc991bc6.jpg.html" target="_blank"></a> <a href="http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/6_zps711132fb.jpg.html" target="_blank"></a> <a href="http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/10_zpsfaefd9c6.jpg.html" target="_blank"></a> <a href="http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/37enginebay_zps3ebf061b.jpg.html" target="_blank"></a>
The play in your shaft is normal, it is retained by a nose cone or the bell housing. The fit of the turned down part on the shaft needs to be a good fit in the pilot bushing in the crankshaft, if that's worn it can cause all sorts of weird problems. Check it out you will figure it out. Gary
Thanks. I should have more next week when I get to the clutch. Why isn't there a front bearing retainer though?
Front bearing retainer is in the bell housing. You are looking at the back end of it in the first picture. I think you will find it is a slip fit into the bell when you get things a bit cleaner. I see you have the old style "carbon" t/o bearing ,for reasonable life out of that do not ride the clutch pedal and shift to neutral at long lights. Remember that trans does not have a syncro low so shift to 2-3 before going in to low from neutral . If the car has been sitting you may have rust or grease on the disk which will cause issues with shifting.
I got into the clutch today. Some very interesting observations: I did not find a bearing retainer. Again, the motor is a 51 239 and this is from the 49-54 Service Manual: <a href="http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/37clutchmanual_zpsf25da176.jpg.html" target="_blank"></a> This is also from the same Manual: "The clutch driven plate is 9-1/2" in diameter for all 6 cyl engines except sedan deliveries and taxis which use a 10" plate. A 10" clutch driven plate is used on all 8 cyl engines except for 49 models which used a 9-1/2" diameter plate. The 49 8 cyl used a 10" plate for taxis and sedan deliveries" My clutch plate is 10" <a href="http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/37clutchdiameter_zps0452d467.jpg.html" target="_blank"></a> You can also see two pieces of metal protruding from the clutch disc. These two pieces were rubbing on to the cover. Vibration springs were also "rubbing" and show marks. <a href="http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/37clutch1_zps52e0057b.jpg.html" target="_blank"></a> <a href="http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/37clutch2_zpsef8717a9.jpg.html" target="_blank"></a> <a href="http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/4e884c7c-d48f-4e1c-9612-f975e449b7e5_zpsf834842e.jpg.html" target="_blank"></a> <a href="http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/c1e7c20c-b977-4abc-8836-bc5d214cb82e_zpse13794f9.jpg.html" target="_blank"></a> The flywheel had no retainer: <a href="http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/37flywheel_zps2c7762ce.jpg.html" target="_blank"></a> Other side: <a href="http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/37bellhousing_zps6dd03fda.jpg.html" target="_blank"></a> The clutch fork is a 37 style: <a href="http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/37clutchfork_zps038968b3.jpg.html" target="_blank"></a> Does the flywheel need to come out and get resurfaced, or does it need to be replaced? It shows signs of wear from the clutch disc. The clutch disc was installed right, pointed end towards the engine (someone had mentioned it was installed backwards and that was the reason it was not disengaging). I did not count the teeth, but will on Wednesday when I get back from work. <a href="http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/37flywheel_zps2c7762ce.jpg.html" target="_blank"></a> The 9 springs look new: <a href="http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/37TObearing_zps7d08693b.jpg.html" target="_blank"></a> Again, I was told the clutch was replaced 15 years ago, springs were new and it had approximately 500 miles in 15 years. Carbon T/O bearing: <a href="http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/37TObearing_zps7d08693b.jpg.html" target="_blank"></a> <a href="http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/37TObearing2_zps1a06dca0.jpg.html" target="_blank"></a> View of the cover assembly: <a href="http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/37plate_zpsce09fa7a.jpg.html" target="_blank"></a> <a href="http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/37plate2_zps184bd326.jpg.html" target="_blank"></a> <a href="http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/37plate3_zps0c05a7d0.jpg.html" target="_blank"></a> I am not a clutch expert, but this looks worn to me, but then again, I have ben wrong before. <a href="http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/37clutch1_zps52e0057b.jpg.html" target="_blank"></a> <a href="http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/37clutch2_zpsef8717a9.jpg.html" target="_blank"></a> As you can see, there are mixed and matched parts. I was thinking, since the engine is newer, match the clutch assembly with the newer diaphragm style, basically use all the components illustrated in the 49-54 Service Manual. What do you think? Should I, or just replace T/O bearing with the same style, pilot bearing, clutch disc, and call it a day? What about the retainer? All your input and advice is appreciated, as this is all new to me. Thanks again
According to my Motor's manual they made a design change in '46 to a normal type release bearing which used the "Support" shown in your manual page. Looks like you would need a 46 up bell housing with the support in order to use the diaphram cover. You will note your release bearing is retained to the levers on the cover you have no need for a normal bearing retainer/support. I think maybe your disk is from the later style setup and is the cause of your problems hitting things. Refacing the flywheel won't hurt as finding any replacement will be hard. Easy way to tell which way the disk fits is just set it up against the flywheel ,wrong way you will feel the springs hit the flywheel bolt heads. If the splines on the disk are 1-1/8 X 10 splines Chevy's used that size for years on various models at least into the 70s.
I measured the input shaft and it showed 1.104". Is this considered 1-1/8"? The conversion chart showed close, but not exact 1-1/8". It is 10 spline. Do you think switching to the 9.5" clutch disc will help it not hitting?
Your disc looks a little rough and also a little large for you pressure plate. I think a change would be good.
Yeah 1.104 would be considered 1-1/8. I too think the disk is a bit large for the cover/PP. And in your last picture the disk is backwards ,the side that is up in the pic goes into the cover . If you installed it in the car in that orientation the springs would hit the flywheel bolt heads I 'm sure.
<a href="http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/37clutch2_zpsef8717a9.jpg.html" target="_blank"></a> This is how the clutch was installed... I took pictures before and this is how it was installed... The flywheel bolts have no marks from being hit. What has marks from being hit from the 6 springs however, is the bottom of the pressure plate, the other side: <a href="http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/8cd436d2-c103-4717-a1a3-21008ff4db9d_zpsaeaa13cd.jpg.html" target="_blank"></a> The springs have made a 1/4" "groove" at the bottom (shiny marked part). So, was it installed backwards? My 10" clutch is a Veelok 1057. The surface area is 2.02". So is the pressure plate's area. The 9.5" clutch disc's area is 2.355" a difference of 0.335" meaning if I just replace the clutch disc and not the disc/plate it will not line up completely. Is this acceptable or not? If it was installed backwards, does that mean installing a new unit the right way, will be OK? I am sorry for beating this to death, I just want to do this once... Measure 10 times cut once...
Having the disk slightly smaller than the cover is very common and will not cause any issues. Fit that disk or any replacement disk ,by hand, to both the flywheel and cover looking for any points of contact/interferance. We don't know for sure if that disk is the correct one for the car or PO got what ever he could. If your manual specs a 9.5 disk that is what I would be using. This is one of those things that if I was able to lay hands on the parts I would able to have better answers.
Got to the flywheel today. Ring gear number is 502153 1933-54 STD Group 0.673 140 teeth. FLywheel has a cast date H 15 which if I am correct stands for Aug 1 55 or 65 (?) Couldn't find a part number... Is drilled for two bolt patterns, outboard at 11-5/8 with 5-3/4 spacing apart and inboard at 10-3/4" with 7-1/2' spacing apart. The bellhousing number is 499589 which is stock for 37. This is from the 37 Manual <a href="http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/image_zps2c23c8c2.jpg.html" target="_blank"></a> So far: Bellhousing 37. Pressure plate 37. CLutch size 37. Clutch fork 37. TO bearing 37 style. The cherry on top: Clutch disc was installed backwards, with the snout towards the engine, as you pointed out. There is proof of that and that is the marks from the springs on the bottom inside of the pressure plate, the area by the springs holes: <a href="http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/a2_zps1851b3f3.jpg.html" target="_blank"></a>
Want to make sure I will be doing this right: clutch disc is not marked, this seems to me to be the flywheel side <a href="http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/image_zps25b63985.jpg.html" target="_blank"></a> And this to be the pressure plate side. Am I right? <a href="http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/image_zps39687996.jpg.html" target="_blank"></a>
Definitely looks to me that the disc was in backwards, very surprised it did not slip badly,good thick clutch lining probably save you there. A guy brought me one like that from the shop at the other end of town. He had trouble getting it that far, the hack had extended the clutch rod way out to even get it in gear, and swore he had it in right.
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