Hey all I have a question. My 52 Styleline currently has a 235ci straight 6 out of a 1954 Chevrolet passenger car. http://i.imgur.com/yBAQTus.jpg I was told that it was switched in because it was more reliable than the 1952 engine. Thing is, I also have a 1966 250ci Straight 6 that was acquired to switch into the car. http://i.imgur.com/VcyQlSF.jpg http://i.imgur.com/M306S1p.jpg I'm told the '66 250 runs fine and it was picked up because it was significantly improved over the '54 235. Can someone tell me the actual mechanical differences? Also, would I be better off to switch to the '66 and get it running, or should I just use the '54 engine which I know will run with minimal work? If I switch, will the engine just drop right in or am I going to need to change the bell housing, among other things?
First of all, welcome to the HAMB. The powers that be require a proper introduction so I'm sure you'll do that as soon as possible. It would benefit you to read the rules for posting. The guys around here are very helpful to begin with and even more so when you do as required. Search is your friend, here is one of my threads. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=790103 The 250 has a different bolt pattern than your 235 to start. If you want to keep the 3 speed or power glide you will have to use an adapter. If you opt for a more modern tranny the you will need to go to an "open" driveline. And the list goes on. Not trying to discourage you just giving a heads up. I am sure others will chime in with more details.
Intros are nice, GI, but not required: "4. While we don't require 'introductions,' some members do appreciate them so it might be a good idea for you to do one here. Just introduce yourself and let folks know what you are all about."
Thank you! It's a little confusing at first, learning where exactly each topic goes. This is one of the more strict forums I've been on. I'd like to keep the 3 speed (I actually have a power glide transmission as well but prefer the idea of manual). I was told I'd need to pull a rear end from a pre-1980s Camaro if I went with the power glide. Previous owner (grandpa) tells me that the engine has a "light knock" in it and has already been rebuilt once. Another family member says that "both engines run fine." I've seen it go up and down the road a couple years back, with the 235 of course. I can't actually lay hands on the car at the moment, I'm out of state and plan to spend a week or two this summer getting the car into a properly drive-able condition. I'll have help and I'm not sure if I should attempt to drop the 250 in with the parts it needs, instead of spending the money to get parts for the 235 then later put the 250 in.
Get the 235 running, it shoudln't be hard if it was running before. Those motors are fairly indestructable, so a "slight knock" could be something you could live with for a few years, and save your loot, and spend it on tires or brakes.
Hi and welcome to HAMB. I have a 56 chevy 235 that I run in Nostalgia Drags. 3 on the tree 3.70 rear, 2 Carter Webbers that I purchased from Stovebolt. I have a blast and the 235 is still kickin. It's your ride do what you wanta do.....JT
That is not a knock, it is your 235 purring. I don't have a '54 transmission here to check this, but, I'm quite certain that your input shaft is the same length as most Chevy transmissions over many years. If you redrill the 250 bell housing & put a little effort into the collar the throwout bearing slides on (maybe a little machine work), you could bolt that 250 to your transmission. You will have to make engine mounts for the 250, there may be radiator/fan problems. I like 235's but the 250 is a more efficient engine. If the 250 has a smog (California) head on it, don't bother with it.
235- 4 main bearings 250- 7 main bearings, and that makes for a stronger/smoother bottom end. The 250 is longer and requires the radiator to be moved forward of the radiator support. There are several bellhousings that you can use, and modify to work; I'd get one with the throwout bearing fork in as close to the stock 52 position as possible. There's a guy over on ChevyTalk.Org, Deans50, that did this same 250 swap, and detailed it very well in text and pictures; check it out. Chassis Engineering does make a universal set of late six mounts for the Chevrolet apps. If the 235 truely does have a rod knock, I'd go with the 250 as long as it is sound. JMPO. Butch/56sedandelivery.
Beware that either engine could be running "just fine" and still need a lot of work. Without taking them apart, you can't really tell how long they'll last. The Chevy straight six was completely redesigned in the early 60s, the 235 is based on a 1930s design, more or less. The "new" engine is lighter, more powerful, more efficient, and doesn't look as nice.
How much work do you want to do ?235 easy 250 not so much. check out Stovebolt.com& Patricks eng parts
Hey everyone, thanks for all the info and replies! I've got a good basic understanding of the engines now. I believe I'm going to stick with the 235 for now since I know it'll run. I'll put the 250 on a stand and see about getting it properly built and then perhaps drop it in at a later date. I'll run the 235 until it goes or the 250 is ready to go in, whichever comes first. Looking forward to getting the car going. Going to be changing out quite a bit of mechanical. New gas tank, fuel lines, master cylinder, brake rebuild. I have a few more concerns but I'm not sure if I should start a new thread for each of them.
These cars are a blank canvas, with a huge palette of parts available, both OEM and aftermarket. My advice, come up with a realistic plan for what you want to do with it, and map it out. As for the brakes, I am a big fan of adding a dual-circuit master cylinder, with a power booster, if you like, and all new brake lines. If it won't go, you can walk. If it won't stop, you may never walk again. You can get all new brake parts from a variety of vendors. There are a number of brake master cylinder options. Invest in a good manual double-flaring tool. That way, you can buy bulk brake and fuel lines, and make up your own.
Just be aware that since the 250 is a newer family it isn't going to be a drop in swap. There are dozens if not hundreds of little and not so little differences and even a "simple" rear end or engine swap can end up being a big job for a beginner. U joints, driveline lengths, parking brake hook ups, spedometer gear compatability, motor mounts, shift linkages 6 v to 12 v, exhaust, radiator hoses are all things to be addressed. Non are insurmountable once you have some experience, but why throw them in front of you if you could alternatively simply get what you have running to see if this is really the hobby for you.
I bought a 55 one time with a 235. The guy said it probably wouldn't get me home. It had lots of tappet noise, so I pulled the valve cover and it was as dry as the desert. I was getting a 283 ready for it, so I temporarly squirted some oil all over the rockers and it purred like a kitten. Drove it that way for a couple of years, just pulled the valve cover once a week and gave it a shot of oil. No rocker cover bolts required. LOL
A little history of the Chev six may help you figure out what to do. The engine in your car dates back to about 1937. They had cast iron pistons, poured babbitt bearings and low pressure splash oiling system. The engines were reliable and long lived as long as you did not drive them fast. Keep to 50MPH and you are good. In 1950 or 51 they modernized the engine with aluminum pistons, insert bearings and pressure oiling. They also increased the size to 235 cu in from 216. This improved engine was only used in Powerglide equipped cars at first. From 1953 or 54, it became standard. Same engine continued to be used until 1962. These engines are interchangeable 37 - 62. Then they brought out a completely new six. The 63 up model can be fitted to the older cars but requires some modifications. The bellhousing is different. There is one model of trans that bolts up, another that does not. You need the correct trans to make it fit. Motor mounts are different, engine is longer, there are several small changes that need to be made. If it was mine I would try to find out what was the matter with the engine that is in there, if anything. Bearings can be fixed without taking the engine out if they are not too far gone. Next choice would be the pre 63 engine. The newer engine will fit but is more of a hassle to install.
There are two versions of the 235....the poured babbit rod bearings style with low pressure oiling to the main bearings and a dipper system on the rods...and starting in 1953 Powerglide models, they were equipped with higher pressure lube system and insert bearings on the rods. There are inconsequential minor differences as well, but that is the gist of it. The 235 babbit engine was first introduced in larger trucks as early as 1941 as I recall. It was then used with Powerglide equipped passenger cars beginning in 1950 models. Passenger cars beginning in 1937 were equipped with 216 babbit engines through 1952 models, except for the Powerglide models as noted. In 1953, the stick shift cars used the babbit 235 and the Powerglides got the insert bearing version. !954 thru '62 all were insert bearing engines.
It's really interesting to learn how this engine has evolved over the years. I wrote up a list of parts I might want to change out for when I go to get the car running. Gas Tank Fuel Pump Carburetor Air Filter Brake Rebuild for all four corners (drums still, though) Master Cylinder Oil Filter Spark Plugs Spark plug Wires Distributor Battery Alternator (It's been converted to 12v many years back) Water Pump This was all quoted to me at $560. That doesn't include anything like gaskets, the oil for the oil change itself, or other little things. I was told I'd need a spacer for the carburetor as well since the spacer is cracked. I'd like to convert the front to disc brakes but I heard it's expensive, and I'd likely have to put a different master cylinder on. Also, I worry about it fitting the stock wheels (Which I'd like to keep). I want to make the car basically stock, except for a few details.
Id stay away from the 250 truck engine that has the head with the integeral intake manifold on it. They are really prone to cracking. The regular type head will work on them. Rather then change the whole driveline Id go with the 235 myself
I installed disc brakes from MP brakes that I picked up at swap meet for a couple of hundred. They worked great with the stock master. Will be putting a dual reservoir set up to accommodate the discs that am trying to make work on the back. My car has been parked longer than expected but I would rather get things safe than be in a hurry considering there really is no budget for the car right now.
I checked out MP Brakes' website and I couldn't seem to find a set that was for anything in the 49-54 model year. Jegs has one set listed at $482. http://www.jegs.com/i/Stainless+Steel+Brakes/884/A148-14/10002/-1 Was there any fabricating or metal modification involved with your set? Or was it simply a bolt on?
The only thing I had trouble with was one of the bearing races, You have to heat them so they slide onto the spindle. First one went on like a glove but the 2nd was stubborn. The rest was bolt-on. Typical 11" GM rotors and larger single piston calipers. I will try and find part #s for you. On the road tomorrow so it will probably be Friday before I can check.
Hey Whitey, The MP brake kit you are looking for would fall under 1954 Corvette. If I remember correctly the 1953-54 Corvette front ends were the same as in the 53-54 sedans. http://www.mpbrakes.com/1954-chevro...rake-conversion-kit-legend-series?filter_name=
Thanks guys. I think at this moment I'm going to spend my $11.96 and just rebuild the drums for now. I think as soon as I get it running, discs will be my first buy.
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