Features Doing Falcons Right

I respectfully disagree. Fords had "combination" valves as OEM equipment to mate with their OEM master cylinders.

In my book, if you use one, you need the other. I did.

 

Do you drive this Falcon, with this exact setup?

 

63 Falcon, Granada disc brakes, Mustang II manual disc/drum master cylinder, Ford combination valve, Speedway Motors residual valve.

You have to determine whether the master cylinder has built-in residuals. If you can insert a piece of wire or paper clip into the outlet port, then you need to add residual valve for drum brakes.

 

When I got my 63, it had a Granada Disc conversion (with the donor master cylinder) with no proportioning valve. The brake bias sucked.

I tried an adjustable proportioning valve the bias sucked a little less, but I still wasn't happy with it.

I found a used 1975 Granada valve ($20.00), installed it and I really like the brake bias now.

For a long time, nobody re-popped it- NPD has it now, and they're really proud of it:

http://www.npdlink.com/store/products/proportioning_valve_new_replacement_acts_as-148119-1.html

Here's a shot of the installation when the engine was out:



Shh, that paperclip test is top secret- the residual valve:

 

Parked out front. Y'all can come take it for a spin, if you like.

 

You can find a Ford combination valve on that evil bay place for $60-$80.

The Ford valve is a 70/30 split.

 

So I have a 1960 ford falcon, I just pulled the old 144 and auto trans out and put in a 200 and a c4 from a 1965 comet. The swap went well but I cannot get the starter to engage. I know that the components are good as both engines ran fine when pulled and I have done multiple test with a multimeter and test light.. I am convinced it is the neutral safety switch on the new c4. How do I wire the nss in the 1960 falcon that doesn’t have wiring for it? There was no wiring on the old transmission so I’m guessing that I need to run wires to the nss on the newer c4. I have searched a little but can’t seem to find anything that helps.
Wondering as well how the ford-o-matic safety worked as that would only start in P or N.

 

Make sure you have your battery cables on the right way. The starter will spin bakwards, but won't kick out.

 

Starters only spin one way, regardless of polarity.

Unless you're in Australia/New Zealand. Then they spin the opposite way, regardless of polarity.

Icpland:

I can't speak for the '60, but the '63 had the neutral safety switch in the steering column. The C4 has a combination switch for both neutral safety and reverse lights. They are color coded and like-colors go with like-colors.

 

Seeing is believing.

 

Respectfully disagree with me all you would like, but in the nine months I got to drive my wagon set up with the master cylinder I described without any sort of proportioning or combination valve before it's destruction, I put on over 10,000 miles with plenty of Phoenix traffic emergency stops. I have since done the same conversion and master cylinder for four other customers with the exact same results. If you feel that you need the extra plumbing on your car, go right ahead and plumb it in. By the way, My dead stock '71 Maverick with 35,000 original miles didn't have a combination valve either, It was simply a distribution block with a port for warning switch.

 

I ain't got no stinkin' valve, either.

 

Hehe , being a Kiwi I get the Toilet Joke !

I fitted 289 and C4 to wifeys '60 which was a 6 cylinder and auto trans car .
I have not wired the C4 Neutral switch , instead I used the factory '60 switch on the column.
I also swapped out the detent plate for the column shift with one from a '64 Falcon so it selects all gears correctly. Swapped the sight glass also .



.

 

A stinkin valve ? .... Is that like the "whore" valves you hear going Psssht on the young guys "Tuner" cars ???



.

 

If your dead stock '71 Maverick had front discs, it had a combination valve.

You can run without one, that's your choice, but telling someone they're not necessary is bad advice on a forum where people come for good advice. I take the side of automotive engineers over your individual experience any day. If you're omitting them on customer cars, you might find yourself at the defending side of a nasty lawsuit one day.

Can you give a part number (or any other reference) for the magical self-proportioning master cylinder?

 

OK, I am having issues getting my group of buds who I hang with to agree on me doing a gasser on my 62 falcon, but I agree that a "true" gasser look has to be a straight axle, whether it be drilled I-beam or tube axle, but I kind of want the drilled dropped axle with the single spring or with coil overs. I did find out the car I bought already has a 8" rear, I will just be swapping out the 4 lug axles for some five lug axles and will have to get some 5 lug drums, I hope. Does anybody know if the 4 lug drums and the 5 lug drums are basically the same or not when it comes to the internal parts and the backing plates?

 

You need your buddies to approve the build? Are they footing the bills for it? I kinda half listen when my buddies give input, and just nod as they talk. Then I build what I want, not what they want.

 

I don't have a part number off the top of my head, but it's application is a '74 Maverick manual disc/drum unit, as recommended in the Scarebird disc brake kits. You and I can disagree all that we would like, but the fact remains in the thirty five years that I have been building hot rods, I use a proportioning valve only as a last resort to finely balance a system. And, I come from a background performance stuff that goes around corners as well as straight, so I am a bit finicky as far as how well stuff stops, too.

A combination valve is even trickier to get right and lots of trial and error to find the correct one if it's the most common non-adjustable type. Now, the ball is back in your court... What exact combination valve is correct for a Falcon with a six... How about the changed weight distribution when a V8 is added?

The fact remains that when I did the front disc conversion on my '62, I unpacked the bracket kit, went to my wholesaler and got the rotors, calipers, pads, pins, hoses, and master cylinder recommended for the kit. I was pleasantly surprised as I had used that particular cylinder in several applications before with excellent results. That doesn't make it "magic", just properly sized for the job at hand. I strung new brake lines to both ends because I am not particularly fond of reusing 50 year old stuff that is unknown to me. I rebuilt the rear brakes and did a new hose back there as well.

The first week the car was in DAILY service, after a fairly comprehensive neighborhood shake down, (I don't own late model "drivers" so my stuff gets used, ALWAYS, everyday) I was faced with a typical Phoenix maneuver when an illegal alien decided that he needed to lock his brakes up at a green light at 36th street and Thomas in rush hour traffic when everybody else was running at 40-45 mph. My car responded by stopping quickly, in straight line, without the rear end coming around or any other sort of theatrics that would normally indicate balance issues. That sort of thing was repeated many times in the ensuing nine months until a drunk decided to destroy the car parked in front of my house. Kinda hard to argue with basic success.

As I said, you can put anything you want on YOUR car, if you feel it's necessary. As for me, I know how I will set these up from here on out. If that changes, I'll be the first to post here. But please don't portray me as unknowing, negligent, or criminal in your pursuit of looking knowledgeable.

 

I'm with Chip on this. I have 25+ years in pro car building. I have no unhappy, injured, or dead customers.

 

Guys,
I'm not looking to get in a spitting contest. I started this by respectfully disagreeing. You decided to double down. Fine. I did my research when I did my brake swap and the research told me to use either a prop valve or a combo valve. You come along and tell me all my research is wrong, only on your say so, because your car brakes fine without one.

According to RockAuto, the 1974 Maverick manual disc/drum master cylinder is the same as the Granada, Monarch, Pinto, Mustang II, Bobcat, and Comet. All these cars (and others) come from the factory with combination valves. Far be it from me (but perhaps not for you) to second-guess FOMOCO.

Although Scarebird says you MAY want to use a valve, CSRP and others sell the valves as part of their kits.

You can visit Mustang Steve, VMF, Dearborn Classics, the HAMB, and other websites to see discussions of swaps. The vast majority of comments and discussions agree that you need combo or proportioning valves.

You can Google "Proportioning Valves" and read all day long about what they do and why they're important.

If your practical experience differs, well then good for you. I stand by my position that yours is the minority opinion and you have no business telling someone on a forum that it's the right thing to do just because it worked for you.

As far as liability is concerned, negligence is defined as deviating from the standard of care. In my research, the overwhelming standard of care calls for brakes to be proportioned and there's no such thing as a proportioning master cylinder (for this application anyway). As a result, if you or one of your customers has a crash that can be proven to be caused by lack of a proper braking proportions, you're basically screwed when the investigation shows that you left out a proportioning valve. I don't say this to be smug. It is what it is.

 

How 'bout we get back to something a little more interesting? My junk's in the weeds.


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That's what we need. More pics of you Falcon. Dick.

 

What the hell is goin' on inside the cabin?



Yer' such a tease....

 

It's a race car man! SFI 25.2 cage. It looks kinda like a jungle jim inside.

 

Oh.

 

Now that I like! Are you leaving it satin black or putting a vinyl wrap on it like all the cool kids are doing?


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If his other race car (school bus yellow, LOL!) is any indication, I don't think so...


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Can't afford paint right now so it is what it is. Gotta make some serious fender modifications for the tires but other than that...

 

if anyone in the New England area is interested im selling this 1961 hood with 48 louvers . was an old display piece at a louver shop if your wondering why its painted like that. straight and no rust , just very dirty