1950 Buick Lifter Valley Question

Hey Guys. Attached are some pics of my lifter valley. I probably did something I shouldn't have, but at this point I don't think I can make it any worse. When I first took off the valley cover it was a giant mess. I'm not sure, but besides a bunch of sludge I think there may have been some water or coolant in there as well (this is where I'm hoping you guys can help me by looking at the pics). If there is water or coolant am I in big trouble? What can I do to correct this problem? Now for the thing I probably shouldn't have done. Seeing that there was a giant mess I said F$&k It & pressure washed the lifter valley & then quickly dried it and poured Marvel Mystery all over it. Do you guys think that was bad or ok based on the pics. I also found a couple of lifters with their heads popped off. Can these be repaired or is it better to replace them & what's the best way to remove lifters if they need to be removed. Also are these hydraulic lifters? Thanks for all the help. I new at all of this & I'm just trying to learn.

Before Pressure Washing






After Pressure Washing













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Well if I would have washed that out I would be pulling the oil pan and be cleaning it out also. Now if you have anti freeze in there I would be looking for that leak. Pos head gasket. The lifter could be put back together there should be a wire clip that holds it together should have been in the lifter valley but could have made it to the pan. If it was in the lifter valley you probably washed them away.

 

Definitely take the pan off and clean it out, clean the gunk from inside the crankcase too, don't pressure wash it but use compressed air, rags, and brushes. You may need to clean the oil pump screen too.

When you get everything perfectly clean and back together fill it with oil, run at a fast idle for 20 minutes drain and refill.

About the lifters, put them back together with the clips and hope for the best. If you take them out DO NOT mix them up or mix up the parts. Keep all the parts of the same lifter together and keep the same lifter in the hole it came out of.

 

-Are there any places that sell the clips for the lifters?
-Would it be a good idea to pull each lifter & clean it or should I just let the Marvel Mystery do its thing & hope for the best.
-If I do pull each lifter what's the best way to get them out? Is there a special tool?
-How can I tell if there is a stuck lifter?
-How can I check to see if there's a bad head gasket?

I'm very new to all of this but really want to learn & I feel like the best way to learn is to DO.

Thanks for everything guys.



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Buy a Factory Shop Manual for your model year. Available in originals, reprints and on CD. Lots of detailed info and pics. Best money you can spend.

 

You may stop at a machine and see if they have some old lifters in the scrap bucket that could have a clip that will work.
Have you had this engine running?

 

Log onto Team Buick and go to the straight 8 section, lots of good information there.

 

If you're talking V8Buick, they're down for a full overhaul and change of servers.

 

Yes the engine kind of runs. It was sitting for 35 years before I bought it. I gave the car an oil change & found a ton of sludge in the oil pan. I cleaned all of that out & got it started but it wouldn't idle, so I decided to give it a tune up. Then I looked under the valve cover & it was a mess so I wiped & vacuumed as much crap as I could from there. Then I noticed 3 broken/bent pushrods so I ordered some new ones. I wanted to make sure the pushrod pieces weren't in the lifter valley so I pulled the cover & found 2 of the lifter pieces just sitting there as well as what I thought might be coolant. I Didn't see any clips for the lifters plus the pushrod valley was also a giant mess, so I decided to clean it. So to answer your question. The lifters were already somewhat apart and missing the clips. I guess my next step is to clean out the crankcase (without psi washer ha ha). & the oil pan.


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Sounds like you need to look for a stuck valve at the bent and broken push rod locations.

 

Yep^

What makes you think there was water or coolant in there before you pressure washed it? Was the oil milky looking?

Pressure washing it was not exactly a good idea and probably created some other problems for yourself. Just for future reference, if it were me I would have cleaned the outside of the engine to remove any excess grease and grit (with the lifter cover in place) and then with a bunch of old rags, cleaned as much of the sludge out of the gallery as possible. Then, with a toothbrush and carb cleaner cleaned the rest of it up. A messy job, for sure. As it is you now have a bunch of water/sludge and grit in your oil pan. Now. you're going to have to drop the pan and clean everything out. From the sound of it, it probably needed that anyway but I wouldn't let it sit like that very long. No more pressure washing unless the engine is all buttoned up and you take precautions to keep water out of your carb and distributor, etc. Cleanliness is really important and you don't need to be blowing sand and other crap from the outside of your engine to the inside.

After you get the pan cleaned out and everything buttoned up and back in place, put fresh oil in it, let it idle for a while (assuming it runs), then change the oil.
Like the guys above mentioned, you need to reassemble your lifters in a clean environment and make sure that all parts of your valve train go back into the places they came out of.

Buy a shop manual and ask questions here. Most of the fellas will be willing to help you out.

 

Oh yeah. I forgot to mention that some if the rockers were stuck also, so I pulled the rocker assembly, oiled it up really good & made sure all the parts are moving freely. One of the guys from another posting said that could have cause broken pushrods as well.


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Hmmm...I doubt it, if you put everything back together right. As mentioned, I'll bet you have some stuck valves. Did it have bent pushrods when you got it or did that happen after? Did you rig up a temporary gas tank? If you're using the original tank and didn't clean it out first, if there was any old gas in the there it could cause those valves to stick PDQ. Or, sometimes they just get stuck from sitting for a long time.

 

I used a small gas can with fuel in it to start it. Will mystery oil sitting on the valves a few days while I'm getting it ready to start loosen them up?


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Not sure when the pushrods got bent.


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I would take the rocker shaft back off and check the valves with a rubber mallet , Just hit them square on the middle of the keeper and see if they go down and snap back shut , also look over the valves and all the keepers should be level , if any are lower then thats a sign of a sticking valve , sometimes your lucky and MMO will loosen things up . but sometimes the stem has rust/crap on it and will need to be removed and cleaned up and you have to pull the head to do so and if your going to take the head off spend the money and have it gone thru

 

Ok. It looks like all the valves are the same level across & they all seem to pop up when hit with a mallet.


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As for the coolant or water I thought might be there. Should I just out everything back together once cleaned, run it for a while & then open it back up to see if there's water/coolant. How can a check to see if there's a bad head gasket?
Thanks for all the great info guys.


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Also, since I'm not able to find the retaining clips for the lifters I'm going to have to buy 2 new lifters from Kanter. Should I use the new lifters or should I rob the clips from the new lifters & put them on the old ones?


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Hey guys. So here's an update. I pulled the oil pan last night (4 of the front screws were hard as hell to get to). Once off I found a bunch more sludge. Probably about a 1/2" to 3/4" thick. The oil pump screen is jacked up. It looks like it got crushed. Not sure how this could have happened. Maybe you guys can give me some insight on that. Anyways. I cleaned the pan & wiped off the oil pump & now I'm going to try a locate a new pump screen. Here's some pics of everything. Hopefully once I get it all buttoned up and back together everything will run smooth & clean. Fingers crossed.











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Do yourself a favor ... plastigauge the mains & rods while it's down this far ... in your case, look for acid etch in the inserts.

 

No, Team Buick is a different site.

 

Your lifters are hydraulic. You probably figured that out, but I didn't see anyone that actually answered that question. Solid lifters use longer pushrods, and they seat a lot lower in the lifter. Were the bent pushrods still seated in the lifters, or had they jumped out of the lifter cup?
Suction collapse. Your oil pickup looks that way because the screen was plugged, and the suction of the pump collapsed it. Your engine was likely starving for oil. Given the way the motor looked before you pressure washed it, I'd highly recommend that you disassemble the rocker shaft completely, because there's a 99.5% chance that it is packed full of sludge. Your rocker arm bushings will thank you. On the straight 8's I've done, I rotate the rocker shaft a half turn and flip it end for end to give the rockers a new surface to ride on, because you'll likely find some pretty good scuffing on the shaft if the rockers were stuck on the shaft as you mentioned. Note that when you flip the rocker shaft as I describe, you do need to drill a couple new oil feed holes. That shaft is harder than a honeymoon hard-on, so you'll need a good bit and lots of lube to drill the new holes. Also look your rocker stands over very carefully, they are prone to cracking and almost guaranteed to be if those pushrods bent because of sticking valvetrain. See the attached pictures for my cure of that little issue.
Is this a 263 or 320? If it's a 263 I have a pair of spare, disassembled engines in the shop, more than willing to part with either or both of them.

 

Yea. I figured out that they were hydraulic. Thanks for answering though. Ha ha. As for the pushrods. They were all out of the lifters. 2 were broken on top & bottom & one was bent & broken. Plus 2 lifters were missing the clips that held the tops on them & the tops were laying in the bottom of the valley. I ordered 2 new lifters & I was planning on just replacing the whole lifter. Would it be better to just rob the clips from the new ones & use the old lifters? I'm going to have to check the rockers for cracks. The shaft actually looks pretty good. I don't really see any scuffing & after I poured oil all over it & work the rockers back & forth & up & down the shaft looks really good & smooth. I didn't even think about crud being packed into the shaft so I guess Ill be disassembling that to. Ugh!!! As for the valves. I struck each one with a mallet & they all seem to pop right back up. Do you know where I can get a new oil pickup screen? Should I disassemble the oil pump & clean it as well?
Thanks for the great info.
Oh. By the way. Can you explain the blocks you posted in the pics. Not sure I understand there purpose.
Thanks for everything.


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In valvetrain that is adjusted properly and not sticky, those clips don't do a thing. They are there primarily to hold the plunger in the lifter until it gets assembled in the motor. Hydraulic lifter preload will hold the lifter together. I imagine you had some stuck valves or rockers at initial startup, pushrods bent, and then hammered the crap out of the lifters that came apart. If you can wait a couple of days I'll see if I have some of those clips in my stash.

You'll be surprised at what comes out of the inside of the rocker shaft. It's usually quite nasty stuff.

Those "blocks" replace the wimpy aluminum rocker stands. Click on the pictures and they should expand. Look at the one labeled "rocker assembly" and you'll see one of those blocks between each set of rockers.

If this is a 263, I most likely have an oil pump pickup.

 

Thanks for the great info. I think I'm going to pull each lifter & clean them up too just to make sure there not sticking as you mentioned. I PMed you about the clips & oil pump screen. That would be a great help if you had that stuff. As for the rocker stands your using. Those things are bulletproof.


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Oh & I'm also wondering if I should pull the oil pump apart & clean it or will it be ok once I get a new screen/pickup on it?


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I'd pull it off and clean it. With the pan off, you're just a couple bolts away from having the pump off. Then you can see if any of those lifter clips or anything else might have run through the pump.

 

Sounds like a rebuild to me. JMO> Lippy

 

Here's some more pics of the old jacked up crushed oil pump. I opened it up today & this is what I found. Plus there is a crack in the joint between the pipe & the screen.






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