The M4 Sherman tank hydro front pump is a myth! It never had a Hydro. It was in the M4 Stuart, and it is NOT the pump to use. It is a gear type pump. Later pumps are vane type and make lots more pressure. Block off the byp*** with a 5/16 nut and you have a better pump than the Tank Pump. Unbrazed torus member vanes can be ripped out by a high horsepower engine such as a bln. Olds powerbraking on the line. Brazed buckets won't self-distruct. You can MIG or TIG unbrazed buckets, but DON'T braze them! The added heat distorts the bucket. Furnace brazing is a controled process that is done all at one time. DON'T run a stall speed on the street, your trany will run hot. Running uncut Chevy buckets will work in Cad/Olds, but I have never done it so I don't know how well it works. Buckets that are cut for a stall speed and the fins stand up and down, were cut in a milling machine. Buckets that have the fins laying over to one side were cut in a lathe. Course slpine buckets were used through '53 (as I remember), fine splines, '54 on up. Ge****ts and pinion size is it's own chapter. The large pinion ge****ts will interchange, the 4 pinion being stronger. The smaller 4 pinion ge****ts give you better street driving ratios, but they aren't as strong as the large pinion. The throttle linkage regulates your trany shift points. USE IT!!!!!!!!!! It also regultes band and clutch pressure. The only time the spark plug washers have anything to do with this is at wide open throttle. Whether its rod linkage or cable, USE IT!!!!!!! My choice is cable cuz its just a whole bunch easier to apply in every aspect. I can't stress hard enough how important it is to use throttle linkage. Its misery if you don't, and its possible to burn your clutches. "Shift Kits" ? To be able to hold each gear from upshifting involves physically modifing the valve body, plus the installation of a low gear dump valve. Then ya gotta modify your case, band servos, and other parts I can't remember offhand, to fine tune your shift points. The hydro is just like a compuer, building your first one can be very complex. Putting the spark plug washers in the pump is like upgrading your motherboard, ya don't feel it til ya upgrade everything else, and that can be it's own nightmare, if you've never built one. I've only been building hydros for 40 years (and computers for 5 years), but I started by asking my hot rod buddies about hydros. I got all of the same myths that exsist today, and I tried them all. Paul Rank's book is my bible but it's better to use it as a supplement with a stock hydro manual. The book I am gathering information and photos for is going to be aimed at not only "bench" information, but what you do with it to make it work in your wheels. I'll cover tailshafts, slip yolks, universal joints, bellhousings, torus covers, starters, and flywheels. I'll cover what you need to know to identify, build, install, and fine tune a hydro for street/strip. It will be a suppliment to Paul Ranks book. The photos in his book are poor and I will reshoot these. I will also add a chapter on all aspects of hydro interchanges. My book will be in entry-level language with lots of photos for the novice (the wanna-be hydro builder). Even your wife will be able to understand the info, after a couple of beers.
Who makes this cable? I a '58 Caddy 365 with a Hydro that I want use in a 47 Chevy but I don't have any of the trans linkage. Thanks
You can use the generic cable and housing used for bicycle or motorcycle brake replacement. You can use a cable/housing unit like the units used by Chrysler on their torqueflites. I made my first cable system for my '32 with a blown 283. I'm a machinist by trade and I machined little pulleys and cleveses that used cable I bought at the hardware store. It is about 1/16 diameter and very flexibble. Although the 58 Caddy does not use the cast iron hydro, if it has carb to trany mechanical linkage, a cable system will work just fine. I'll look at my '56 Olds trany (same as 58 Cad) and if there is anything I missed, I'll get back to ya. As I think about it, if your hydro is cast iron, its 56 or earlier with a 2 piece bellhousing. If its aluminum, and a 1 piece case/bellhousing, its correct for a '58, although a cast iron hydro can be adapted using stock parts.
I am, in the pickup. The Caddy is goin in the Fleetline. OR, I may put it in the "T" so I can bust some "Dirty" *** at the drags
I've learned a lot about these old trannies myself, but that's so far all been from browsing literature (got a milk crate full), from collecting parts and comparing them (got over 30 hydro's here, plus a pickup load of parts and tools), and from talking to experienced ****** men such as yourself. Of all the sources of info I've had, I think one of the best has to be from knowledgeable guys such as yourself, when they are willing to divulge. I would like to get one of your books!!!
Thanks for the vote of confidence, guys, but I'm not really a Guru. I learned the hardway. I tried all of the hydro myths handed down from my buddies that knew for fact, how to beef a hydro. One friend that had a hydro in his '30 A said, "Why buy a B&M when all ya gotta do is put a the spark washer under the big nut." So I did. It sorta worked but there is a better method, and it's just one of the many modifacations needed to beef the hydro. It was also reccomended to me to use a choke cable to the trany lever, competion style. I had a competion hydro, so I did. I drove it for about 25 miles in city traffic. The choke cable was a really bad idea, and I learned. I will explain this in my book. I have a publisher. I hope to get all of my hydro info put together this Winter and my photos done in Spring. My book is not a "How to beef" book but a suppliment to Paul Ranks book. No body has ever covered the mysterious throttle valve linkage (carb to trany). What is a throttle valve? What does it do? How do you build linkage if you didn't get any with your trany? This is some of the stuff I'm gonna cover. But the neatest part is that I'm going to do this all at beginner entry level. Ever seen a Clutch-Hydro? I'll cover this also, with photos. Thanks again for your support. Dirts32
i'll have to take a picture of the other side of my engine. it took some doing to get the throttle valve to work with the 94's
The throttle valve. I'm gonna make this as basic as I can. The front pump puts out 100 psi. until it gets to the throttle valve which is located in the valve body. The long lever next to the shift lever is your TV (throttle valve) lever and accuates the throttle valve in the valve body. If you push the TV lever towards the tailshaft, it will come to a dead stop. If you move it forward, you will feel increasing spring pressure until it stop. There is a return spring behind the TV vavle. The hydro is pressure sensitive. There is nothing in the hydro that requires vac***, electricity, or volume of fluid, just pressure. Take a breath. At idle, the TV valve is partially closed and only a percentage of the 100 psi is operating the trans. This setting gives you soft shifts, and your in 4th gear by 20 mph. As you pull the lever forward, the TV valve continues to allow more pressure into the valve body. This causes the shifts to be a little more soilid, more pressure to the clutches, and you won't shift into 4th, until 30-35. As the carburater opens and makes more HP, the trany needs to meet the added HP, and the TV valve is opened to meet this need. Got it? The more you pull the TV valve forward, the harder it shifts, and longer time spread between shifts. When your carb is wide open, your TV lever is just kissing it's own stop. Now for the no-fun part. Setting up your TV cable is trail and error. I have found that using a stock TV lever works easist. I use a 1/2"x1/16" strap about 3 or 4 inches long, for the carb. Then drill a series of clevis pin holes in it and bolt it to the carb throttle valve. Do what ever works for you. I make my own Clevis joints for this settup. It could take 4 or 5 stabs at this before you figure it out. You're doin' 40 and you nail it to the floor, you'ved opened your TV valve to wide open, and your high TV pressure pushes the 3rd-4th shifter valve back into 3rd. It's commonly called the"p***ing gear". At about 75 mph, the trany will shift back into 4th by itself. Theres your parameters. Experiment, and trail and error. The results are more than worth it.
Me too, Please put me on your list for your book when its available. I am ready to take the "Dual Range" 4 spd Hydro out of my 40 with the "Blown" Caddy 331 because of the 2-3 shift problems, slow shifts and LEAKS. I used to run "Cal Hydros" behind big block Chevys in the 60s at the drags, you couldnt beat them then, BUT you didnt need TV linkage for them. After reading your thread, I am going to try one more time to work out the TV linkage, didnt want to use cable but it looks like that is the only way to go with the tight space problems. If delivered, do still rebuild them? Great thread, Thanx, Dave
Definitely interested in the book---looking to buy a Hydro to go behind a small block Chevy---I'm starting from scratch--any help most appreciated!!! THANKS, Dave
here is some good reading for you Dave,and anyone else that wants to run a hydro. http://www.rodnkustom.com/rocketeers/hydramatic/index.html
Local guy builds hydro's and he says he does 12 modifications to the valve body that B&M never did. I'll probably have him build me one. But, I am ALWAYS looking to learn more, so bring the book on! Oh, and if anyone has info on how to do a high-gear lock-out modification, or a modification to allow the ****** to free-wheel in neutral while the car is moving, without burning up the pump, spill the beans!!! I hate the idea of constantly changing my aluminum rods due to stretch because the car has to pull down under load at the high end of the track...
The rear band (3rd gear) is spring applied and hydrolicly released. Shut the engine off and the band is applied. Because the band is on while towing, it's the rear clutch pack that fries, not the pump. In the olden days, an aftermarket quick release handle was attached to the rear band adjuster on top of the hydro. The handle kept the band adjusment lock nut in the same position on the adjuster, and you could reach down from a sitting position and back-off on the adjusting screw without losing your initial adjustment. When you wanted to race, turn the adjuster down with the handle until the handle stops. You're in adjustment and ready to go. I don't remember what they called this handle but it worked great. It was used more for shutting down the engine so you could make a good plug reading after a hard p***. I don't have any pictures or drawings of the handle, I don't even have a handle. Anybody out there got one? I need one to take measurments off of for production. I will be offering band adjusting gauges. If I get a request for the ***orted rebuilding fixtures, I'll make those also. I'm a tool & die maker by trade and I've got a machine shop. A hydro that's out of adjustment is worse than a case of crabs.
The best thing for you to do is locate a V8 and hydro (with carb linkage) out of a '55 - '59 Chevy pickup. To try to piece one together without a book with lots of pictures would really be a challenge, especially if you're low on funds. To start with just a hydro, is almost a deadend effort. You can easily identify the trany, but the rest of the needed parts have no identifing marks. It is possible to mix and match parts(to a small degree) but not without a book with lots of photos. The starter is hydro only. The only good news is that the slip yoke is the common p***enger fine spline with a 1310 ****er u-joint. The hydro and the Turbo 350 are the same length and will interchange using the same driveline (I did it). You could always run a 350 Turbo till ya find a hydro.
I still build hydros. The 2-3 shift could easily be that your bands are out of adjustment. The slipage could be not enough TV pressure (carb linkage) or just not enough line pressure. A tired pump or internal leaks can create the problem. Cal Hydro was one of the best. Ya have to live the 1-2 shift commin' outta the chute wide open, ya can't describe it! I ran my TV cable on my blown Mouse motor to the firewall, then down the firewall to the hydro. That was a piece of cake compared to dialing in the TV valve. But the trouble was worth 50,000 problem free miles. Cable works surprisingly well, don't give up. Just remember that unless your trany is running up to par, You might not be able to reach a satisfactory setting, no matter how long you screw with it.
Hello I was directed to this thread by another member,upon reading i have learned some of what i needed to know. THANKS!! I posted this elsewhere. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > Was wondering if anyone could decode this slant pan Olds B&M? I recently picked this up for a 394 i plan on dumpin in my 58 Olds. R54, H2, UC1241. The R54 Prt is easy= 54 Olds. The UC may mean Unblowen compe***ion,or chev? It did have the smaller chev coupling and chev housing on it. The stock Olds 54 housing and fluid coupling went on easy. The full vanes inside each looked the same i was told and were not brazed. They are crimped and tight. Is it ok to swap the couplings like this? Another member told me to check ring gear to block clearance. What is the appox stall for launch with a stock 54 coupling? The 394 crank bolts on no problems! Guessin i gotta build/balance bottom end first before i give the torus cover/flywheel to the trans builder. Can we say low 13s high 12s in a heavy car! TIA
Holy Christ, i'm sure its good info, but could ya maybe use the return key sometimes and put it in paragraphs? That there is hard to read!!
Wow! Don't know how I missed this thread. Especially since I lived in Bakersfield my whole adulthood 'til I retired to Texas in 2019. Would have loved to have hooked up with Dirts32 in Bakersfield since I built and ran my Dual Range there for 20 years. I got my ****** in the mid-60s to run in my '36 Willys coupe. It is a '54 Willys! This was a low performance ******, fewer clutches, 3-pinion planet carrier, etc. Over the years I beefed up the ****** a bit at a time. First thing I did was turn down the clutch piston thickness and added clutches and disks. Then I found a parts donor ****** and swapped in 4-pinion carriers. Of course I put in the spark plug washers for more pressure. Would have lost my man car if I didn't! Most controversial thing I did was make a first gear hold valve from the picture in the B&M catalog. It worked! Whodathunkit? Need to plug an exhaust hole behind the valve body to make it work. I got help doing that project from a crusty old ****** guy in Fresno when I was going to Fresno State. I run a Chevy torus in a large Olds can so I think that gives a little higher stall speed? I hooked up my carb and TV valve using several bell cranks and 1/4" rods. I set the TV to be totally off at zero throttle, full on at WOT. Unit has shifted perfectly for almost 30 years! I set the bands externally using the "this many turns" method in the Chilton's manual and it worked perfectly. Never had a bad 2-3 shift. One other mod I did was deepen the pan an inch and half as I remember. The torus check valve leaks eventually on all Hydros and that fills the ****** case and fluid drips out the weep hole in the yoke. I brazed extensions on the internal oil pickup tubes to reach the deeper pan. Had the pan powder coated bright aluminum to make it look trick. Hydro to Hemi adaptor was my high school graduation present in '67! It's a Willys ****** in my Willys!! Bell crank @ top of ******. Rod aiming right goes to throttle pedal when floor board is installed. Rod going left goes to carb. Rod going down goes to another crank, then to TV valve. Rod at Carb. Third bell crank at bottom of ****** to get right geometry @ TV valve. Full stroke @ carb = full stroke @ TV valve. Note the deep pan. Spacer welded into pan. Extension brazed on pickup tube. This is the B&M valve, I don't have a photo of the one I made. Works the same.
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