I have a '54 331 Chrysler hemi intake (in photo below) Is this the correct adapter to allow a standard square flange Holley 4BBL? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HAM-3222/
Yes, but you don't need to spend THAT kind of money for it. Basically, the throttle bore holes for the original WCFB carburetor are too small for an AFB. All that's needed is to get an adapter that has large enough throttle bore openings, and raises the carb enough to avoid interference with the throttle blades at WOT...
Below is the adapter that I manufacture. It will adapt your WCFB intake to a late Edelbrock or Holley. Available in plain or red anodized, and either by itself or in the kit. I left the bores on the small side. It is easier to take material out than add it in later You can email me at twaters@together.net
Just so there in no confusion, mine is not the same piece as Summit sells. And whats mine made of? Cnc machined 6061 aluminum and hardcoat anodized. Made in the U.S.A. And my kit is less than half of the Summit part price. But yes, for $15 bucks you can buy a hollow offshore diecast piece of crap adapter which uses t nut inserts for the threads, phillips head screws to hold it in place, and no gaskets.
Here's what I did with my '54. In the first pic you can see the difference in locations of the stock WCFB throttle bores and an Edelbrock/AFB. I took the manifold down to my local machine shop and for $25 they opened the throttle bores up to match the AFB (second pic). Then I used an inexpensive adapter I picked up on Ebay for $15 and modified a phonelic spacer to fit the throttle bores and when I was done the Edelbrock/AFB bolted right in place and worked perfectly. No reason you couldn't do the same thing with a Holley.
Demon, I checked into the machining costs. It's a lot more than $25 where I live. I'm just gonna go with a nice adapter at this point and leave the intake unmodified.
smart move, thats got to work a lot better then the adapter, a little time with a hole saw should work almost as well, i have a low deck desoto 2bbl intake, i think i may be able to do this, of course i'll have to do a little cast iron weld build up but i think i can, i think i can. Then I used an inexpensive adapter I picked up on Ebay for $15 and modified a phonelic spacer to fit the throttle bores and when I was done the Edelbrock/AFB bolted right in place and worked perfectly. No reason you couldn't do the same thing with a Holley.
I dunno Budd, I doubt that a hole saw will like that kind of cutting. We cut 354-392 manifolds but all is done in a mill. As for the 2-bbl to 4-bbl modification, I once tried something similar on a 318P manifold and for the labour involved I decided it was a waste of time. If it works be sure to let us know. TRWaters does something similar to 2-bbl manifolds but he won't give any details. You can see his stuff on ebay. .
Some intakes...such as the low deck Dodge and Desoto are not cost effective for a 2 to 4 bbl conversion. The reason is that there is no way to open the intake up (fully open, not just taper the top) without getting into the carb heat passages surrounding the carb base. The same goes for a 51-53 331 2bbl intake or a 2bbl truck intake. I've tried them all. By the time you mill the tops flat, weld and epoxy the carb base, and then weld in the center ports in the side flanges, you have a 40 hour, welded and epoxied intake that you cant sell because.. 1: took too much labor, and 2: people are scared of epoxies and weld. Yes, the low Desoto and 51-53 Chrysler have a nice big base where the 2bbl sits, but trust me....its not big enough. (And it too bad, because I have a bunch of my cnc adapter plates with that big 2bbl bolt pattern. ( its slightly different than the wcfb pattern) The tall deck Desoto makes for a good 2 to 4 conversion. You just cant go wild with your bore size. These can be done using NO welding or epoxy. You also need to be careful when milling the top surface, as it is not overly thick. And before I forget, budd....using that phenolic insert is an excellent idea. While we are on the subject. I could sell a $15.00 spacer/adapter. I dont. Here's some reasons why. And I think Gary, or anyone in the parts business will agree with some of my reasons. 1: Unless I make 100 of them, my cost would be over $15.00. 2:You will always have someone who will say "I could have made you that for $10.00." "Oh, and no gaskets or hardware?" 3: That $15.00 part will work. and eventually that big puddle of gas sitting on the top of the original carb pad will find its way into the intake. 4: Sometimes I get offended when there is a post like this. I realize this is about hotrodding. Everyone has a different way of getting from point A to point B. I am a one man show. Money out of my pocket goes to the design, CAD, and manufacturing of a part such as my carb adapter. When I sell a part, it is my goal that the customer can open the package, bolt it on, and go. And believe me when I say that ALOT of guys will not modify their stock intakes. That $15 part will get a carb bolted onto the intake. Period. And thats after you get your gaskets and rest of the hardware. So you have the 15 plus another 5. You have a shop bore the holes larger $25.00. Buy an insert like budd used and fit to spacer. $10 A couple hours of running around. $worth more to some than others. If you figure some of your time, and your parts costs, you have surpassed the price of my adapter kit. There are alot of smart and talented people on this board with the knowledge and resources to "build their own". There are also alot of very nice people like the OP who just wants to use a different carb, and doesnt have the resources to do it all from scratch. And dont even get me going on those " build your own trans adapter" posts. OK. I'm done ranting. Sorry I got so far off topic. The guy only wanted a carb adapter.
Here is low deck Dodge conversion. A total nightmare to do. The ports taper at the bottom. Needed a thick top adapter with special bolt pattern. Never again. When people ask, I tell them to buy an Offy.
Low deck Desoto. Looks like it would convert nicely, but doesnt. When people ask, I tell them to buy a Vintage V-8 intake. The first picture was a comparison shot, so you have to search for the carb base. Once milled flat, there are two large holes on either side of the bores. My adapter plate used the original 2bbl carb bolt pattern. Sorry I didnt have a better shot.
Tom, Those look pretty sweet. Sure a guy could save a few bucks by spending the time messing around but looking at that adapter and the fact it is a true bolt on piece, a guy can't go wrong. If your building a Hemi this is probably the cheapest part of the project. Obviously Tom you are a do it yourself kind of guy by looking at the various parts that you offer, and you've weighed the pros and cons of certain routes to take to get the best bang for the buck, and also very knowledgeable in the Hemi market. Dashman's Hot Rod & Speed Parts www.dashman.net
thanks TR Waters, and that is not my adapter, i was just useing Demon Seeds post to make my point, so adapting a wcfb to a 2 bbl carb intake would work? i have some 4jet carbs with that pattern, what would you sell me one of your adapters for?, 2bbl to large pattern 4bbl, i know it would be lots of work but i have every thing i need to do it, and i dont count my time.
Tom, Thanks for the details on the manifold work. My suggestion on using the $15 carb adapter was simply that I was shocked at the $122 price tag on the Summit piece; it was not a dismissal of your piece, which, by the way looks very nice as does all of your work. I am guilty of assuming, sometimes way too often, that other folks have the experience and /or the resources that you and I and many others have and can easily go to their personal parts shelves and get what they need to start or finish a simple job like a carb spacer. Yes, the $15 adapter can be made to work, but as you note it is not sold as a complete package and some parts chasing is required. Also, as you noted, for some of us time is money. Some folks do not value their time because they are not 'in the business', but simply an end user. This often raises the question, "...you want how much for that...?", without regard for what it takes to have 'it' available, or in the case of an engine rebuild, to simply gather the needed parts. Some folks actually believe that the correct parts magically appear on time... Parting note on the trans adapters...I actually encourage folks to make their own because it will make yours and mine look like a bargain by the time they are finished, if they finish. Gary
Sorry once again if I got carried away. No offense to anyone. budd, the other plate I have is drilled for the large base 2bbl. What I found after I had them made is that alot of the intakes have the bosses for this pattern, but not that many actually were drilled and used. Email me at twaters@together.net and I will send some pictures with measurements. I forgot to post about the 51-53 Chrysler intake. If you are real careful, and dont mind a little taper in the bores, these can be converted without all the boring problems of the others. You do have to cover the exhaust heat riser opening along the side of the carb. Also have to keep in mind that these have small runners. This was one of the first I did. Certainly a case of "damn...should have thought about that". When I bored it, I went thru the heat passage in a couple places. Remember that these heat with exhaust (see above quote), so I didnt want to use epoxy. I ended up counter-boring the center port in the intake mounting flange and plugging with a core plug. Then had to make up flange gaskets without a center hole. If I was doing another I would be conservative on the bore size, and would just braze up any hole I might end up with. Now.......where did I put that 2x1 Marine intake?
Think this is the Offy adaptor. just install longer mount studs & drill out the holes so it drops onto the intake. A bit cheaper than the summit one.
Kathy, There are some variations of the throttle linkage on different AFB/AVS type carbs that may be an issue, but, depending on the specific carb, you might need a spacer just to clear the butterflies so linkage might not be an issue. Dan Babb recently had the same issue/questions for his 354 intake and, without looking, I think he had a bolt-on. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=455737 Gary
I received my adapter from TR Waters. Very nicely made / aircraft quality. Fits the intake perfectly and looks good too. While not as inexpensive as the Chinese version that Summit sells, it's a better deal than the Hamburger spacer that I was originally asking about. I'm also glad it's made in the USA. Thanks Tom!
Will this adapter work on my 55 DeSoto with a holley carb? Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
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