I just found one of these in a local junkyard. It's a four-door, as shown. Far less rust than normal in Michigan, rockers seem to be solid as does the trunk, but I'll have to investigate further. Interior is all there but a little scuzzy, I believe all the chrome trim is intact. It has a clutch pedal and a column shift, but I'm not sure if it's a standard 3-speed or one of those hokey semi-automatics. I've always liked this style car but never seen one in person, so I haven't looked into them too much. This much I know so far: Inline six only, 100 or 110 horsepower, 3050 pounds (same as a V8 '68 Camaro coupe!). So, anyway, some questions... 1) Torque tube or open driveline? 2) How hard is it to put a normal transmission in place of the funky semi-auto (if that's what it's got)? ***ume we're keeping the I-6 for the time being. 3) Is it going to require a lot of inner-fender and front framerail work to put a Mopar V8 in one? Which ones will fit? LA? B? RB? 4) If/when I put a built 440 and a 4-speed in it, what rear end might go in there with a minimum of work? 5) Are disc brakes an easy retrofit? How is it done? 6) Anybody got one? How do you like it? Thanks!
I've got a '55, retaining the six and three speed. Diff is strong, I know someone with a 440 running stock diff, no problems. 440 is not too wide, and the engine bay is reasonably roomy. Running headers around the steering box might be the major problem. The '55 is open driveshaft, so I presume the 54 is too. Disc brake kits are available, as are dropped spindles. Also adapters to fit T5 trannies.
1. Open, but uses Ball and Trunion style U-joints instead of standard ones 2. I didnt know they still made the fluid drive in '54, I'd bet its a standard 3 speed. 3. Any Mopar V8 from the early hemi on should bolt in without to much fuss. Not any more than any other 6 to 8 Conversion anyway. Paricularly look for pre-62 motors of the A, LA, B, Poly and Hemi series motors. No V8 will bolt to the trans though. 4. I've heard that a Challenger(I think) rear end fits ok, but you'll have to measure it carefully. 5. I believe that AAJ sells a disc conversion. There is no simple "Bolt In" swap using all factory parts because it usus King pins, not ball joints. 6. No, but I've got a '55 with the 6 and 3 speed. Its nice...
plymouths didn't have fluid drive, just regular three speeds. Overdrive was fairly rare, and now somewhat sought after. '54 was the first year for the optional Powerflite auto trans. Also, some '54's (late?) have the 230 inch motor, some have the 218. All '53 and earlier had the 218.
It's funny but everyone tells me this or that is rare... but where I live stuff is common. My Plymouth has OD, and I think both my buddies 55s have it too. But then again someone once told me 55 Plymouths are rare also. The only thing rare where I live is people with all their teeth. Is there any way to convert from those funky leather covered U-joints to a later "normal" Ujoint?
when I speak of rarity I try to base it on the number of cars that had it, not how many I've seen with it. My opinion of cars with overdrive (I've had a couple) is that they will be found in regional pockets- as in- you probably won't find many OD cars in the junkyards in Durango Colorado, but you'll probably find a bunch in the junkyards in Limon Colorado. No need for OD if all you drive are twisty mountain roads or city surface streets.
Ive got a 53 and am puttin a 318 in it the rear end can be anything if the measerments are takin as the E brake is on the old trans. I am thinking of going with a carson top because I dont like the rear roof line. By the way my car cost me 300.00 and it ran but needs a complete rebuild.
It's nice to see other Plymouths in the works. I have a 54' 2dr sedan myself and I have a 360 and A833 lined up for it...but it won't be done for a good while. Hopefully I'll be ready for Viva 06' none the less.
Nope. Not easily. The ball and trunion also move latterally compensating for the length changes in teh driveshaft as the suspension moves. You need a different trans with a slip style yoke on it to eliminate the B&T joints.
The 54's were offered with the 3 speed manual with OD, the Hy-Drive semi automatic or the new for 1954 Power-Flite fully automatic trans. Various mfgr's offer front disc brake kits for the stock front end. Thats an easy, bolt in swap. You might be able to get away with that 51 year old axle for a short period, but the torque of that 440 will soon kill it. A good choice would be the MoPar 8-1/4" or 8-3/4" axle. Heres a link on that: http://www.440magnum-network.com/info/tech/rearaxle/moparrearaxle.shtml You need to measure your stock axle from mounting surfaces and check the bone yards for a later MoPar axle close to the width of the stocker. You can use the stock rear springs and move the spring pads if necessary. I've never seen a 440 in a mid fifties Ply but have lots in the forties cars that have less room than the 54 with its newer, wider frame. Its not the usual swap and would be a real sleeper.
it should already have a 8 3/4" differential. it just has tapered axle ends, not flanged. moser engineering sees this all the time and already have an axle length at least within 1/4" of your needed dimension. i agree it will need going through if you plan on putting in a 440 in there, but if it all looks good , leave it be. the springs on the rear of that car run to a taper of sorts. the perches on the axle also reflect that. the shackles have a wider spread on the back than they do on the front at the pivots. at the rear the spread on the springs is 46 3/4 inches center to center. at the front they are 38 13/16" roughly. also the springs loacting pin is drilled off center of the spring. from the front eyelet the pin should be 22 1/2". not knowing this can get your springs backwards if youre not careful. you will grow to hate the braking system on this car. it has cam eccentrics that locate the brakes instead of standard adjusters (clicker type). after years of use they will not do their job effectively. not to worry though, mopar never changed the axle ends for 8 3/4 patterns the entire time they were made. this means any late model set up will work on your car just about. i plan on using big dodge truck types 2 1/2 wide by 11" round on mine. they are cheap and everywhere. likewise the 8 1/4 flange has the same set up up til the mid eighties. all of my info comes from a factory service manual. hope this all helps.
"it should already have a 8 3/4" differential" I didn't make myself clear. In 54 I think the V8's came with the 8-3/4" and the 6's with 8-1/4"(?). The late model axle has bigger brakes that would match the front disc brakes he asked about. If he stays with the stocker he might be limited on gearing, not to mention trying to chase down replacement parts on an old axle. It just seems easier to upgrade now and put the money into something that will be easy to maintain and find parts for when you break down in tim-buck-two.
So, a '54 Dodge, DeSoto or Chrysler would have an 8 3/4" since the Plymouth only came with a 6 in '54? I had no idea the 8 3/4" was that old!
I have a 54 plymouth that i have been working on and changing for 6 years. The big block mopar is a ***** to put in because the front crosmember and the oil pump and filter run right into each other and fender well headers must be made to clear the steering . I tried a remote oil filter setup and still didnt have room . I had to set the moter way up in the ch***is to get the oil filter over the crossmember which worked fine until i channeled the car 7 inches. It was also necessary to cut and raise the ****** hump to make room for the 727 trans . If you channel or have a tall intake with this setup you will have to cut a hole for the air cleaner . The small block mopar fits nicely if you offset the moter about 2 or 3 inches to the right which is how all muscle era mopars were factory. You can use 2 p***enger side a body manifolds or make headers as none of the factory ones i tried will work.You need a truck oil pan because the car mid sump hits the steering. With the small block it is nice to put a recesse in the firewall for distributer clearance. If you go big block look for 60-64 chrysler mounts as they are simple to adapt and use the later model trans mount either way because it is cheaper and break proof though it can get clunky if rubber tears or dry rots,these were available on trucks and cars post 75. On the 8 3/4 axles there are a lot of different combos over the years. I know they made them as far back as 49 as i have a 49 coronet.I know they were made as late as 74 in trucks and challengers but not all trucks and challengers have them . The problem with 8 3/4s is the 64 and older had keyed on hubs which are supposedly break prone as is the ball and trunion drive though i have had both behind big blocks with no trouble. Another rummor is the breaks will all interchange this is true of the 65-89 rwd cars and 1/2 ton trucks with the exceptions of the 4 inch bolt circle a bodys and the big bolt circle imperials and trucks and disk brake imperials. Pre 65 brakes had a different backing plate with a smaller hole to hold the axl seal and there are 3 different widths 2,2 1/2 , and 2 1/4 depending on year and size of car there are also 10 and 11 inch drumes.The brakes on 65 and older also have 2 differant bolt patternes on the backing plates.Some 62-4 drums will work on latter axles. There are two differant bolt patternes on the hog heads also i know the 64 and up is the same and has 741,742,or 489 as the last part numbers on the side of the case .The 54 and older all used the bolt on wheels instead of studs and nuts.There are no less than 7 different yokes that i know of for the 8 3/4 and they can have 3 different spline types.Some wear between 56 and 62 the axl splines went to 30 spline.The only 8 3/4 that will be narrow enough for your car,have 1 peace axls and common 2 1/2 inch brakes is the 65 b body which also takes the latter case and 30 spline sure gripp or posi . The newwer axls are to wide unles you run special wheels.
"So, a '54 Dodge, DeSoto or Chrysler would have an 8 3/4" since the Plymouth only came with a 6 in '54? I had no idea the 8 3/4" was that old!" I think so. Ply didn't get the V8 until 55. Check this site for late model Mopar axle info: http://www.autohobbydigest.com/a-rearend.html For me, i chose the Ford 8" out of a Cougar, which matches the width of my stock 51 Plymouth. The only two axle ratiios available in 54 with any trans was 3.73(od) or 4.10's(Hy drive) My suggestion, if you go with updated motor, do the same with the rear end. But what do I know, all my ex's never listened to me! Heres the difference between early and late: http://www.autohobbydigest.com/jpg.php?axlepul09.jpg
according to the website mentioned the 8 3/4 came out in '57. I thought the pre '57 rears were something different as well, can anybody positively confirm?
Well, this site shows axle bearing parts for a 54 Ply with either the 8-3/4 or 8-1/4 axles:https://www.rockauto.com/applet3.html My manual doesn't identify the ring gear size.
From what I've heard, the earily 8 3/4 is an 8 3/4, but not THE 8 3/4. It is interchangable/upgradable with THE 8 3/4. I dont have any first hand experience, and I don't know what the difference is exactly, but I'm pretty sure there is one. I heard it from self proclaimed Mopar king himself, four-thirteen.
I went another route to check out that stuff on Rock Auto- that stuff is all wrong. They pretty much show either rear in any car, regardless of engine, car size, etc. The 8 3/4 did come out in '57- it is a drop out center like the earlier rear, but totally different. The 8 1/4 didn't come out until '69 and is the integral carrier style, like a 10 bolt Chevy.
Believe who you will, but we have an actual '54 and prior Chrysler P***enger Car Parts List book from an old dealership. According to it, the 8 3/4 came out in 39 and there was disc brakes in the late 40's early 50's plus some had carriers with 6 spider gears. From personal experience, there are 2 different bolt patterns on the backing plates and the hog heads. These are easily identified by the spacing of the top 2 bolts. We have a 49, 53, 54, and 56 8 3/4's. These all have the widely spaced bolts on the backing plates and on top of the hog head. The 49, 53 and 54 have 11 x 2" brakes. The 56 has 11 x 2 1/4" brakes. We have a 59 8 3/4 that has the widely spaced bolts on the backing plates, but closely spaced bolts on the hog head and has 11 x 2 1/4" brakes. We have a 64 that has close spaced bolts on the backing plates and the hog head. We've had countless numbers of 65's and newer 8 3/4's, they all have closely spaced bolts on the backing plates and hog head. Also, we had a 51 Chrysler that we put a Duster 8 1/4 in. It's a bolt in swap, but it isn't tough enough for a 440. Plus we don't know if this would work the same on a Plymouth. The 56 and older axles had courser splines and they also had no provision for a pinion snubber. We don't know from experience on the 57 and 58 rearends because we've never had any. Nor have we had any 60 to 63's. Our info is not from wedsites, magazines or non Chrysler manuals, but from owning all these combos and years of using and working on 8 3/4's.
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