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Discussion in 'Off Topic Hot Rods & Customs' started by sgtlethargic, Jul 12, 2024.

  1. JohnLewis
    Joined: Feb 19, 2023
    Posts: 545

    JohnLewis
    Member

    Honestly it's obviously hard to diagnose something over a computer. Like the above comment. I've got access to alldata and identifix. I can get info and put it here on the engine control system if you want it. I just need a year make and model, vin is the best. Going off a engine description I'm just taking a guess. Vehicles and their computer control systems are different between models and options. But saying you tested something doesn't mean it was done right. Without the right tooling to actually access a vehicles system or properly test and the knowledge you're just creating a circle for yourself.
     
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  2. JohnLewis
    Joined: Feb 19, 2023
    Posts: 545

    JohnLewis
    Member

    I'd run through the Diag before I just took it apart. The scanner you're waiting on should help a bit. Swapping parts for a known good part is kinda up in the air. If the ECM saves the data from the old part and runs off those values until it has enough run time to re-learn then it's going to do the same thing.

    I've never ran into a situation where the Evap system caused a no starting condition. Just considering its a non primary system.

    My own opinion if the access is there I'd do the spark plug with the head on. I wouldn't take the head off unless I had to.

    Test the Fuel System. Test the ECM. Your Ignition and Fuel Timing is going to be ran off that.

    Compression is still over the minimum value for the motor, I wouldn't worry about rebuilding a 300+ thousand mile motor.
     
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  3. Rodney Dangercar
    Joined: May 19, 2024
    Posts: 76

    Rodney Dangercar
    Member

    Diagnostics before doing anything else. Any other option is a waste of time and/or money. Since you are going the ELM/app route I thought I would post a few screen shots from the software/miniVCI kit I use. You can compare the data/options you have with ELM and miniVCI:

    Live Data Stream:

    Live.png

    Health Check:

    HealthCheck.jpg

    DTC Monitor:

    EngineCheckjpg.jpg

    Bidirectional capability means that you can control the computer from your laptop, not just changing settings. I wish you luck with your repairs and hopefully the ELM package will do what you need.
     
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  4. Los_Control
    Joined: Oct 7, 2016
    Posts: 1,182

    Los_Control
    Member
    from TX

    My 2 cents, I would try to remove the plug with the head on .... then pull it after the plug breaks.
    Only time I have seen this is with a blown head gasket and somehow the plug seems to become welded to the head ..... no matter that it was perfectly steamed cleaned in the cylinder .....

    Thats not your problem, and if it was with the amount of miles you have on the engine I would not attempt to fix it. .... I would be searching for a used or rebuilt engine.

    You still have not diagnosed the real issue yet.
    I mean no harm here, diagnosing issues is not easy .... I'm going to say with your approach so far such as installing new fuel injectors was wrong.
    Your idea to pull the head is wrong.
    Some of your statements or questions have been wrong.

    So when me and others before me suggest trying a crank sensor, you replied back and said you tested it and is in value. ???? Who's value, the sensor is like a switch .... do you know if it is normally open or closed?
    Do you have known good instructions to test your exact sensor?
    Mark me as not convinced you properly tested it.

    I will say it again, a crank sensor is a consumable item that needs replaced from time to time ... just like plugs, wires, coils ..... I just checked Amazon, the cheapest crank sensor for my vehicle is $7.99, then $16 ... better ones are $30 .... For $20 you can probably replace yours .... Takes me about 15 minute because done it on my car before ..... yours may be different.

    If you are planning to pull the head on a gasoline engine with 345K miles on it, the engines value is less then the price of a new head gasket for it .... I would leave that plug in there til the engine really dies.
    Just pointing out your decisions on this thread does not lead to confidence you know what you are doing. ..... Thats fine, we are here to help.

    If you do have a scanner coming, at least wait for that to arrive before taking the car apart.
     
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  5. BamaMav
    Joined: Jun 19, 2011
    Posts: 6,969

    BamaMav
    Member Emeritus
    from Berry, AL

    I've got to agree with all that have said replace the crank sensor. Had a Ranger that was running fine when parked, sat about a month, came back, no fire. New sensor, started first turn like always.
    I wouldn't take anything apart until I got that reader scanner. They are way smarter than most of us!
     
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  6. JohnLewis
    Joined: Feb 19, 2023
    Posts: 545

    JohnLewis
    Member

    Sometimes when a scan is accessing a module it will send power to test. For a Hvac module it typically actuates the blend doors. Might be what you were hearing.
     
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  7. 6sally6
    Joined: Feb 16, 2014
    Posts: 2,888

    6sally6
    Member

    Does the electric fuel pump make a noise when you turn the key on ???
    No sound means bad pump or blown fuse...
    6sally6
     
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  8. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 5,373

    gene-koning
    Member

    Most of the EFI stuff I've run across powers the fuel pump for 5 seconds when you first turn on the key. Then if the ECU doesn't see what it wants from the multiple sensors, it shuts the furl pump down.

    You probably can't turn on the key and then get down by the pump in the tank to hear it run by yourself. You need to be where you can hear the pump when someone turns on the key. BTW, turning on the key does not have to crank the motor to power the fuel pump for that 5 seconds, it merely needs to have power to turn on the pump (ignition on).
     
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  9. JohnLewis
    Joined: Feb 19, 2023
    Posts: 545

    JohnLewis
    Member

    I'd get another test kit. Tie into the line before the fuel filter and test pressure. Also test pressure after up by the fuel rail. Rent a noid kit and test injector firing.
     
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  10. RodStRace
    Joined: Dec 7, 2007
    Posts: 7,671

    RodStRace
    Member

    This is commonly called 'prime' as in priming the system. It has the 5 second time, then looks for RPM more than cranking speed, or shuts off. Older EFI stuff this is often able to be heard, but some of the newer stuff especially DI it's not as easily confirmed.
     
  11. JohnLewis
    Joined: Feb 19, 2023
    Posts: 545

    JohnLewis
    Member

    IMG_0440.PNG Should be electric powered off the hvac control module in the center dash. As for the scanner, I've never seen them do damage. I have seen "fuel savers" that when stay plugged in divert power to certain circuits that don't usually maintain constant power. For ecm it depends on which circuit. Some will maintain a full supply others can be 9-12v and others less.
     
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  12. JohnLewis
    Joined: Feb 19, 2023
    Posts: 545

    JohnLewis
    Member

    If the pdf will load for you, might help you out.
     

    Attached Files:

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  13. JohnLewis
    Joined: Feb 19, 2023
    Posts: 545

    JohnLewis
    Member

    Fuel filter sounds a lot better than rebuilding a motor. Hopefully that fixes it for you.
     
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  14. TexasHardcore
    Joined: May 30, 2003
    Posts: 5,556

    TexasHardcore
    Member
    from Austin-ish

    25860E? That's a Vacuum Switching Valve or VSV. I've had mice chew through the vacuum lines under the hood, would throw PO402 code, but couldn't tell a difference in how it ran. I did replace the VSV while chasing those issues a few years ago.

    3rz89778687687.JPG
     
  15. TexasHardcore
    Joined: May 30, 2003
    Posts: 5,556

    TexasHardcore
    Member
    from Austin-ish

    I'll double check & snap some photos of mine when I get home this evening. I drove my Ford to work today.
     
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