Rizto, We actually have a Mercedes in the local yard... if it has the right engine, I may grab the pistons!
From Rizhto's post on the Ultimate Chevy thread in the VCCA forum he said he was looking at MB 230 pistons (pre '73). Looks like it has a 93.8 mm (3.69 in) bore with a compression height of 51.75mm (2.04 in). I found someone who had flat top 270 Venolia GMC pistons in their catalog but the link is on my home computer. I'll see if I can find it after work. Jim
Patrick's Antique Cars & Trucks http://www.patricksantiquecars.com/chevy_parts.html I was wrong about flat top - they are dished and more expensive than I recalled - $369.95!! Jim
I have a pedal question. If any of you are using the stock pedal mount of of the bell housing how do you like it. Does it move around a lot? Is it pretty solid? It looks like an easy solution. Mac, thanks for the wheel pics. Very nice.
Yes. I have a couple. One is from a '29 six cylinder that looks the same. My thought while a bit OT is to build my roadster so I could use either a '28 4 cyl or a 153 4 cyl. If I used a Lakewood style bell on the 153 I could use the same pedal set up. Just a thought.
Bear in mind that the Chev4 engine bolts directly to the chassis. There is a plate that goes between the front of the transmission, and the rear of the bellhousing, that is solidly bolted to the frame. Herb
OK, I haven't picked the complete 4 cylinder up yet but I do remember that mount. It is a lot like the 413 Dodge six a pulled a while back. It may not be practical any way. I may have to build two 4 cylinder cars. Not a bad thing.
Not necessarily (but I won't hold you back)- you could always make a plate mount for the 153 that gets sandwiched between the block and bellhousing, just like the '28.
Or mount them to the same plate and trans. We'll have to see when they are sitting side by side. I like the idea of an engine for special occasions. More likely a 153 to run while I build a strong '28. The 153 is almost ready to assemble. The car is just beginning. Thanks for all the thoughts here this is a great thread about a really cool little engine.
I believe that some Chevy bangers came with fiber cam gears and iron crank gears. And some were opposite. Is this true? Seems like there might be wear problems. And can you use the iron gear against the iron gear? Even though I have a Winfield regrind cam, it is so wimpy it seems as though the fiber cam gear will be OK. I was getting an iron cam gear, but it isn't here yet.
I read that and since about everything I know of these engines is in this thread it must be here. What I remember is that the metal cam gear and fiber crank gear is not the way to go. I wonder how close the later gear set would be. The same set fits 216-292 and the GMCs. There are some different part #s but I think the gears are the interchange.
I think that it was the '26's that had the fiber gear on the crank. I can imagine that in no time at all they were all replaced with the fiber gear on the cam, and a cast iron one on the crank that came out in '27. If in fact the 216-235 gear set will work, that is good news. How did you determine this? Herb
I have run a number of GMCs in my car and I'm here to tell you that the GMC crank snout is way bigger in diameter than the '28 Chevy.
I'm sure you are right why would the wimpy '28 crank have a snout as big as the later engines. Probably not a good spot for a bushing. If it isn't snowing tomorrow I'l pull the cover on my '28 and take a look.
Hello all, Fantastic thread! I am based in the UK and am building a two seat trials/hill climb/fun car with a 1928 Chevy engine, so am learning lots from you guys! I have several questions: 1 - I have a fibre gear on the cam shaft. Does anyone sell metal ones or will I need to make one? 2 - I currently have a 1927 (single exhaust port) head on the engine. I have a couple of 1928 (two exhaust port) heads and was thinking of swapping them over. Is the cam the same for the two heads? The cam I have seems to be badly worn, so I will get it built back up in time, but I want to get the engine running first. 3 - Are there any modern valves that will fit a 1928 (two exhaust port) head which I can buy off the shelf, i.e. modern ones? 4 - I have water pump but would like another one as the impellar I have has been repaired. Any ideas where I can get one? 5 - The water pump I have does not have a pulley and fan on it. I have the spec. for the pulley/fan, but if I can buy an original it would be a bit easier than fabricating one. Any ideas where I can get one please? It is almost impossible to buy Chevy bits in the UK, Ford (if i'm allowed to say that word on here) parts are fine, but not Chevy bits, so any companies in the US which sell '28 chevy bits you guys know of would be great! Thanks all Ben
Welcome to the forum!!--send us some photos of your car as it is being built. Ok--Here we go- First off--as good a source as any for good used parts is http://www.20schevyparts.com/ Gary Wallace (std disclaimer) 1--Use a '27 or earlier cast iron cam gear. '28 cam has different journal diameters than earlier cams, but as I recall the diameter where the gear presses on is the same--even if it isn't you could get your cam turned down to fit. IT MUST be a tight press fit, or the cam will develop end play and cause a noise that you will go crazy trying to pin down. '28 lifters are different diameter also. 2-- Use the '28 head--larger valves, and 1 1/2-1 rockers VS 1-1. about 5 more HP 3--Gary Wallace sells modern valves 4&5--again, If you cant find someone here that can help with these parts, contact Wallace If you decide to go with pressure oiling, look back in the pages of this Topic--somewhere back there are the details of what I did to the engine in the car shown in my avatar. If you stay below about 2800 RPM, the stock oiling will work just fine. Cut your flywheel down until it is just a disk with a ring gear for the starter (like a modern one) and use a 9" diaphragm clutch --I used one from a B18 Volvo, and a disc that fits the Chevy spline--or use a modern 4 speed. A light wheel, and a synchro 4 (or 5) speed will make all the difference in the world in the drivabliity of the car. Biggest improvement you can make. If you have the crank out of the engine, have a machine shop put hardened "dowel" pins between each of the bolts that hold the flywheel to the crank. Until that time, use modern high tensile bolts there, and toque them. Herb Kephart
Hi Herb, Thanks for your reply. I have bought some water pump bits from Gary Wallace, very helpful! I have been looking for a while for someone who sells 'all' the bits for the Chevy 4 banger engine. I will look for a '27 or earlier metal cam gear for the second engine I am building (with all the knowledge I have from this forum and using the '28 head). Someone has already put one engine together, so will use that to get the car running. Is the '27 cam the same as the '28 cam, apart from the fibre/metal gear? I guess my current setup is a '28 cam with a '27 head, hopefully that won't cause too many problems. Will I really only get 2800rpm with the stock oiling? I was hoping to get a bit more than that. I will re-read the bits on pressure feeding, it does seem like a lot of work! I was wondering about putting in a Model A Ford balanced crank and pressure feeding that, but it will soon become unbalanced if I have to shave bits off to make it fit the crank case. I was also thinking of tapping into the current oil pipes coming out of the oil pump and diverting some of the oil to the oil baths above the main bearings to make sure they are always full of oil. I know it is nothing like pressure feeding them, but it has to be better than relying on oil mist and condensing oil running down the walls of the crank case into the main bearing oil wells. This is providing the con rod big ends still get enough lubrication. I was thinking of turning down the flywheel (I hurt my back moving a block and flywheel last time!), but is that advisable with an unbalanced crank? Clutch - the disk to fit the Chevy splines, how easy is it to retrofit that to a new Volvo B18 clutch plate? The pictures I looked at of the clutch look as though it is pressed steel. Attached (hopefully) are some pictures of the car so far. Thanks again! Ben
Ben-- Thanks for posting the pictures of your car! 1 "Is the '27 cam the same as the '28 cam, apart from the fibre/metal gear? I guess my current setup is a '28 cam with a '27 head, hopefully that won't cause too many problems." I will have to do some research on this, as I have never used a stock cam. I previously wrote that the journals on the '28 are larger diameter, but this is incorrect. Will post more on this tomorrow evening, hopefully. "Will I really only get 2800rpm with the stock oiling? I was hoping to get a bit more than that. I will re-read the bits on pressure feeding, it does seem like a lot of work! I was wondering about putting in a Model A Ford balanced crank and pressure feeding that, but it will soon become unbalanced if I have to shave bits off to make it fit the crank case." Thought that you were building a road car, but from the looks of your chassis, it seems to be more of a hill climb car. Considering that, you can rev the engine more, as you are not particularly looking for longevity. With the '27 head, and it's restrictive single exhaust port, small valves and low valve lift, the engine will probably self limit the RPM's. I would hazard a guess that the first thing to let go if you rev too high for too long will be the rods--either the babbit will fail, or the rod will break (lousy design and material) Use Ford A rods-- they are an eighth of an inch longer (helps compression), don't have the pinch bolt wrist pin, and are vanadium steel, compared to the Chevy's plain carbon steel. Big end diameter is the same, wrist pin is larger, but rod can be bushed down. When you say a Model A balanced crank--are you talking counterbalances? The stock A crank has none, although they can be cut from plate and welded on. I did this with a stock Chevy crank which I also drilled for pressure oil. I would STRONGLY urge you to have ANY crank and flywheel dynamically balanced after any modification. I machined up rod and main bearings from soft aluminum--I have done this on Ford A and B engines in the past successfully--but shortly after I started using the crank in the photo, I found that the journals were getting scored--even with a full flow oil filter--because the Chevy crank was softer than the Ford ones. I had to pull the engine, take out the crank and have the journals welded up with the material that they weld diesel truck cranks with. "I was also thinking of tapping into the current oil pipes coming out of the oil pump and diverting some of the oil to the oil baths above the main bearings to make sure they are always full of oil. I know it is nothing like pressure feeding them, but it has to be better than relying on oil mist and condensing oil running down the walls of the crank case into the main bearing oil wells. This is providing the con rod big ends still get enough lubrication." DO NOT DO THIS WITH THE STOCK OIL PUMP. The mains get plenty of oil for a stock engine, primitive as the system is. The stock oil pump is a pathetic thing, and barely pumps enough to keep the rods happy. If converting to pressure, use a late 50's Chevy 6 oil pump. "I was thinking of turning down the flywheel (I hurt my back moving a block and flywheel last time!), but is that advisable with an unbalanced crank?" Again, assuming you mean un-counterbalanced, I would say definitely yes. Some of the circle track race car builders before WW2 preferred the non-counterbalanced B shaft over the CB'ed one, because, being lighter with less rotating mass the engine would rev quicker coming out of a corner--about the only way that they could stay ahead of the Offenhausers "Clutch - the disk to fit the Chevy splines, how easy is it to retrofit that to a new Volvo B18 clutch plate? The pictures I looked at of the clutch look as though it is pressed steel." Later 6 cylinder Chevy disks should fit the Chev 4 spline, although they might be too large in diameter for the Volvo pressure plate, in which case use a pressure plate that matches the later disk. Drill the lightened flywheel to suit whatever pressure plate you end up with and have the flywheel balanced WITH the pressure plate installed Hope that this is of some help, and if other questions arise, feel free to ask. Herb
Ben--regarding the cam situation. There are four cams listed in the "29 master parts manual for the 170cid four The first is for the '16-'17 "490"--of no concern to us. The next, 333130 fits all up to '27--this shaft doesn't have the distributor/oil pump gear cut into the middle journal Next listed 346742 fits '27, with the gear cut middle journal Last, 348669 fits '28 One problem is that i don't have a '27 cam that isn't in an engine. I do have a pre '27, and a '28 on the shelf, and the journals (front and middle) are larger diameter on the "28. I know from the fact that the '27 and '28 distributor both use the same gear, this tells me that the middle journal is the same on the '27 and '28 cams--but the front journal I'm not sure about. There is two other differences between the pre-28 and the '28, and one is the amount of tappet lift. The early cam has a .823" diameter base circle, with .213" lift, the '28 has a .935" base circle with .190" lift--but with the 1 1/2 - 1 rockers in the '28, it gives a .285" valve lift, vs the 1 - 1 earlier rockers .213" valve lift. The other difference is that lifters are different for '28--I know that they are larger diameter, and I seem to remember in the service sheets that the cam contacting surface on the '28's is nearly flat, whereas the earlier ones have a considerable radius You're probably all confused by now--but I'm going out on a limb and say that without modification, you cant switch cams. BTW--from what I can see of the block presently in your car, it looks like it is a '27. Herb
Just a comment on 5/6 lug wheels. I bought a Cobbled together utility trailer with a '27 -'28 Chev axle with 16" wire wheels and 7.50 x 16 tires. Took it apart and found that it had 5 lug wheels on it. Checking further I found the wheels were Ford and so were the hubs/drums. Looked like they had been on the trailer at least 20 years and looked like a direct fit. Norm
Hello Everyone, My buddy Jack sent me the link to this thread, and said I'd be interested because there was a picture of my 1925 Roof Chevy engine, that had been posted by "Mac the Yankee". I acquired it in 2007 and it is currently installed in a 1940's dirt track racer. 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font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} </style> <![endif]-->It has a Robert Roof head Model B crankshaft [drilled] with B connecting rods Jahns pistons Reground camshaft Model A oil pan reversed with Model B rear half of pan added on. 1930 Lincoln oil pump 1930 Nash lifters Front timing gear cover [engine turned] Model A flywheel Model B flywheel housing with B transmission, 1939 gears New 1908 brass carburetor [side draft] Robert Bosch magneto Model B starter Roof exhaust header It has mounts to fit a Model B Ford, new valves and valve guides. We had trouble getting it to run smoothly with the brass carb and replaced it with a Stromberg 97. I've attached a some pics of the motor, the car during restoration, and the car on display at "The Gathering of the Faithful" show last October. Alan
That is really nice! I bet it is fun to drive. Great to see so much mix and match Ford stuff on a sort of Chevy powered car.
Hi Herb (and everyone), Sorry for the delayed reply. I have a 1926 block (no oil filter attachment on the block). I also have a '27 or '28 block (not sure which as I havent looked at the numbers) which has oil filter connection points on the block. I will be building this engine up as a higher performance engine, rather than the one which is in the chassis that has been thrown together with the bits available. I am still a little confused what you have done with your clutch. You are using the original (turned down) flywheel with a modern pressure plate and clutch plate. How have you mated the splines from the modern clutch plate to the chevy gearbox? Or do you have a modern gearbox on there instead? Definately confused about the cams now! So perhaps I have a '28 cam shaft and fibre cam gear running a '27 head, meaning I am going to get a very small amount of cam lift. If that is the case, I need to get my '28 head usable asap and get that on the engine. I guess the only way to tell which cam shaft I have is to measure the diameter of the base circle and see which it compares to from your post. Interesting engine 'openwheeler'. I have had thoughts that instead of building a Chevy engine with Ford a/b parts in it, I would build a Ford engine with a Chevy head, seems like a simpler way round to do it, even though the Ford engine isn't as good looking! (Probably shouldn't say that on this thread! sorry).
The '28 block is recognizable by the fact that the distributor side of the block has vertical ribs that accommodate tin panels that cover the pushrods and tappets-no mistaking them, once you know what to look for you can spot them from 20 feet away. Can't always rely on the casting dates, as some pieces may have been made later for sale as replacement parts. Sorry, should have mentioned that the car has a Volvo four speed gearbox, and the clutch plate matches that. The one thing that makes an old car the most drivable is replace the screaming spur gear crash box with a quiet synchromesh one.
It's been a while since this poor thread was bumped, so here goes! Has anyone else seen this little jalopy on Ebay? What really gets me is that the head is set up for reverse flow! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/cust...2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&forcev4exp=true
That is interesting. Totally different cam? I wonder what else was done inside. I finally was able to bring home my other '28 engine today. I'll try to post pictures tomorrow.
From the missing louvers in the hood sides, it looks like someone put it back together wrong. How close are the flanges from Intake to exhaust? Do they say it runs as is?
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