Projects 1928 Model A 2 dr Phaeton Build

So I wanted to clarify some details on this engine. I initially identified it's build date as Nov 11, 1939, (E119), but only after getting the engine back from the machine shop I could more clearly make out that it's actually Nov 11, 1938 (E118).

This was also clarified by the 81A cast in the bellhousing. I realized this when I was trying to install my new main bearings and found that this crankshaft was ten thousandths smaller than the new bearings. It turns out that the 1938 81A blocks got the new 24 stud head bolt pattern, but kept basically everything from the 1936-37 style motors. So, my main bearings wouldn't fit, the oil pump is different, the crankshaft is shorter than a 59AB, and the camshaft is shorter as well, meaning I had to order this adapter to mate the cam to the new Stromberg e-Fire Distributor:


So I was luckily able to re-use the like new main bearings that were in the engine when I got it, refurbish the original 1938 oil pump, and all that.


Really makes this engine a unicorn when it comes to the parts availability and fitment. Can't say I was happy to learn all that, it means that as the years go on, parts for this era (1936-38) flathead will be drying up faster than those for 59AB or 8BA motors.

I chalk this error up to my lack of knowledge in properly identifying what I had and how it's parts would and wouldn't work. In hindsight, I would probably have just build the 1953 8BA with the old style heads and cam and called it a day.

But we shall soldier on! Hoping to have it painted and getting final assembly in the coming week.

~Peter

 

Looking good. I’d experiment with the depth of that sunk in license plate box. I like the idea but to deep and it’s really going to catch you eye on not a flattering way.

curious to see how you attach the rear section of subframe to the body and then the rockers to the sub frame.

sure are making quick progress! Keep
It up!

 

Played around with the recessed plate idea and now I'm pivoting directions. Thinking I might leave the plate in the 1928 position and do a gas filler neck out the passenger C pillar corner:


~Peter

 

It all depends on your taste and what era you're building your car for. I like the stock tail light and license plate. On mine I used 39 tail lights and license in the center. there is nothing newer on my car than 1940 except rubber items and seats

 

Got the oil pump cleaned and reassembled, looked beautiful inside! Of course I took the time to drill and wire up the fasteners, just like the main caps. Better safe than sorry.



Then I installed the led front turn signals:


Due to the curvature of the frame horns, they point slightly down right now, so I'll be fabricating some tapered spacers to go under them to level them out.


I settled on using the inner fender bungs for the rear body mounts:


These are 5/16 vs the 3/8 you see on the body seam at the back there. And once the floor is totally fabricated, they'll be re-enforced from below. My only concern is cracking of the metal over time, and I may end up doing additional mounts off the rear body seam to help prevent that.




Remember, the floor structure that's bolted to the frame has rubber insulators, so there was no need to insulate the individual mounts.

It unbolts to aid in fabrication and assembly of the rear kickup area:


^ So in that pic you can see that there is room to add a second wing off that bracket and also bolt it to the rear body seam bolts. I think I'll do that just to triangulate things and get it all tied together.

Should be finishing up the rear mounts tomorrow and then moving onto the next item on the list.

~Peter

 

Just curious about your welds on the brackets in the last post, is that a mig on pulse? They look as good as I can do on random occasion but not consistently on my Miller 252 mig by triggering off and on (about the same amount of splatter and cooling dimple so I guessed yours was mig and not tig but I could be way off). My machine does have a pulse setting that I have no practice with. In reality I need lots more practice........so always looking to pick up a few pointers along the way.

BTW enjoying the build. Your pace is great and has partially motivated me to get back working regularly on my project car.

 

Yeah, that's MIG one spot weld at a time. My Miller MIG welder doesn't have a pulse setting, and I found that this method best produces a penetrating weld without the slump or build up of a non-stop weld. I learned all my welding "skills" from YouTube and experience, so that's one little trick I picked up. I can TIG weld too, but it takes so much longer and it's really hard to do tack welds or quick little adjustments.

When I first started back on this project my welds were way out of practice, but after the past few months with this I'm starting to see the rhythm coming back. That's one reason I'm waiting to finish the inner areas of the top-chop, I want to be sure I can do a really nice job. So I'm just knocking off the rust(so to speak).

~Peter

 

I properly built flathead is way cool and completely dependable. Use modern flathead water pumps. And throw a few spares in the car like point, condeser and coil. Probably wont use them. But if you youll be glad to have them. Use an overdrive transmission. Preferably a manual. However if you want an ohv. Whatever you do don't go a generic budget sbc just like every cheaply built modified car. A y-block or nailhead or other older motor will give just as much dependability for cross country driving as a common sbc.

 

Yeah... I'm using a T5 transmission, just installed new Water pumps, and just finishing rebuilding the Flathead.

~Peter

 

@caprockfabshop just read through your thread, such a cool car, I like the direction you have gone with this one, the Tudor sits so nicely. It's clear that you are used to working on old cars by the way it is coming together. I have subscribed & look forward to seeing it come together.

@aussie57wag good to see you here.

 

Engine assembly is almost done. Got the new bushing pressed into the flywheel for the Tremec and got that installed:


Just Oil pump and Oil Pan remaining and it goes in for paint and then I'll break in the cam on the Engine Run Stand.


Boom, second body mount.

Then it was back up to the front and try and figure out how the pedals are gonna work.

First I made a heel plate that closely follows the transmission, and this will be the foundation for the tunnel sheet-metal to weld to.



Then I started playing around with Gas Pedal locations to see how the tunnel needs to be constructed:


I'm going to be bending the middle pedal (Brake) over to the left a little to add some clearance for the column, and that's pushing the gas over as well. That spring is just there so I can simulate throttle movement, luckily these spoon pedals are adjustable internally to fine to the throw and angle.

Clutch pedal also is getting bent, but that one will go out and to the left, away from the column.

I have NO idea how I'm going to seal the pedals and the column to the floor. Not enough clearance for a column base ring, because the current pedals would hit it. I think I may end up making custom pedal arms.

I did spot a cool idea by @etboy97 :


I might look into something like that, but if anyone out there has ideas for what to do about the column and pedals in a setup like mine, post what you got!

~Peter

 

Rubber with a slit attached uder the brush?

 

Yeah, something like that: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/clark-coupe-build.1044199/page-6#post-12630898

~Peter

 

Why would you want the uprights of the pedals in the cabin?

 

My bad i thought you already had that and wanted to keep water and stuff from coming through the brush seal

 

Because there's no where else for them to go? I don't know. That's where the pedals ended up. I guess I've never seen anybody finish out the interior with a Boling Brothers chassis to see how they tackled the pedal to floor seal.

~Peter

 

So maybe the pivot point of the pedals should have been 2 inches forward? Sometimes things need to be adjusted.

 

Yeah, that's kinda where I'm leaning. I didn't mount the pedal box/pedals, but it's looking like they need to move somewhere.

 

Let me beat @Tman to the punch and say your easiest solution is a flat toe board. Then all that needs sealed is around the column mast and the very ends of the pedals.

 

Here's the problem with that. I've adjusted the pedals so that the pad-faces are 90° from the floor board, and this is how much they have to move to activate fully:


The throw is super long:


Here's from the engine side:


And a bird's eye with pedals all the up and relaxed:


I gotta travel for the rest of today, but I'm curious as to what my options are. You guys are a huge help!

~Peter

 

once you have them hooked up i dont think they will stick that far up.

 

New pedal time

 

They are hooked up to the master cylinders below. I also used the adjustment on the pushrods to get these aligned 90° from the floor.

I think @Tman is right, new pedals are the smart move. Spend the afternoon daydreaming of some options, hoping to get the ideas into CAD (Cardboard-Aided-Design) and start identifying the best solution. I really need to get a seat mounted though, so I can have a comfortable driving position to work with. I got the steering column adjustable with the swing-drop from the dash, so there is a some wiggle room up-down and fore-aft.

Maybe this weekend.

~Peter

 

I'm very blessed and honored to have the Model A accepted to the 2023 Gathering at the Roc!

They share my vision for where the car is going to end up, and after I assured them that the car will be traditionally painted and upholstered, I was approved. Definitely made my week!

As an update on the pedals, I've found some time to do some research and there will be some significant changes made to take advantage of some ergonomic improvements while retaining the period-appearance of the car. So bare with me, I promise there's a reason to the madness.

~Peter

 

See ya there!

 

Just looking at the pedals and the throw. Looks like quality made parts and the one picture I saw, looks to be about two or three inches from the M/C mounting face to the pivot point of the pedals. If you look at your pedals (as hung) from the side, are the push rod tabs straight down off or the pivot loop? If so call that six o'clock. You can gain some throw by moving the tabs back to say five or maybe even four o'clock. Brake/clutch pedals, steering column mount are some of the most important, for safety and also for comfort and ease of use. Keep up the good work.

 

Hey Peter, Project looks great! I read back through the thread to see if I could find this, but I couldn't. I know you made your header pipes from tapered straight pipe, but where did you source your bent/curved pipes?
Thanks!

 

So after taking a step back and looking at the situation with the brake pedals, I assessed two priorities.
1: The car appear 1955-period correct overall
2: I want this to be a comfortable driver

So priority #1 means I can't just mount the master cylinders on the engine-side of the firewall; since they're modern Wilwood units, they'd obviously break the tradition style. And priority #2 means that I'm not willing to have huge holes in the floor that I have to figure out how to seal up.

So I turned to a relatively simple solution:


That's a Scott's Hot Rods 90° Mount I got through Summit Racing. It lets me re-use the Wilwood Master Cylinders I already bought, and hides them up under the cowl.

I started off with a 10"x14" plate of 3/16" steel for mounting to, this got welded to the firewall (Yes, I primed the backside). Then it was a simple matter of whipping up some brackets to bolt the assembly to and get things squared up in the vehicle.



I Plasma-Cut additional slots in the base plate for plug welding. This spreads the load over a greater area of the firewall vs only being welded on the edges. Obviously, I'll do the finish welding of the areas once the body is off the frame and I have more room to get in there.

I also drilled the Brookville Cowl for the 10 bolt holes that bolt it to the cowl sides, and got that in place:


Still tweaking that^ body line, but luckily there's room to adjust the gaps.

I'm not worried about filling the master cylinders after the car is on the road, because I easily have plenty of clearance from the lids to the cowl on top to get in there with a flexible brake fluid gun. Otherwise, worst case scenario I just have to unbolt the cowl, which takes only a couple of minutes.


I'm a little worried about how visible the clutch master cylinder will be with that fitting being slightly visible from the door way, luckily I have an other Wilwood unit that will tuck things a little tighter out of the way.


But now, pedals arms can be bent/custom built to get them right where I want them and the floor can be total smooth and flat. Just need to install the steering column base to seal that hole and it's simple right?


I'm going to triangulate the mounts to the A pillar Post with some extra bracing, just to help minimize flexing and stressing of the OEM Ford Firewall. Overall, a very compact unit and definitely solves a couple of problems.

~Peter

 

I also have started working on the rear gas tank filler. Decided to do a central filler neck in the rear and use the early Ford style cap, so ordered the corresponding parts from Tanks Inc and started getting things mocked up:



^The neck will be welded to the body with a support plate on the backside. Then body worked and blended into the sheet metal.



On the inside you can see that I'll just need an intermediate rubber hose to connect the two.

I'm going to be re-doing that rear body bracing, so don't worry that it's cut out at the moment. It was in the way of the filler neck.



Idea is to have a bulkhead that bolts to the body and seals the gas tank from the rest of the cabin, and that will then be upholstered/painted to hide the tank entirely.


Bulkhead will bolt in there^ Between the C pillar posts and will include a horizontal package shelf that extends to the rear window.

So bouncing around a little, but I'm making progress. I'm getting to the point where I need to get the inside of the body media-blasted so I can weld in all the filler panels that I'll be making to adapt the body to the floor. I'm not willing to trust someone else to blast it so I think I'll end up doing it myself with a 10gal blasting tank I purchased years ago. May have to do some experimenting to see how that goes.

~Peter

 

Hell's Gate Hot Rods, they do full header kits, but since I didn't want the megaphone look, I just ordered the 1.625" mandrel bends individually.
https://www.hellsgatehotrods.com/product-category/mandrel-bends/cold-rolled-steel/

I ordered 6 U-bends, and only ended up using 5, but always better to be on the safe side.

~Peter