Juice brakes are a no-brainer... no adjustments, no grease points, 70/30 application, hydraulic power. brake lines and hoses are a 1 day job with 10 trips to the parts store.
Juice brakes it is. Been taking notes at the car shows I have been going to for what to and what not to do. Here is a little update. Paint is my issue.
Ben, the frame looks great bro, that is a lot of work welding and grinding. I will see you at Candia Sunday
IMPORTANT UPDATE: Lessons Learned: Trust HAMBrs; sometimes... On a somewhat serious note, i have come to the conclusion that my frame is toast. This happened when I realized that it had been in an accident up front, as well as in the rear. These pounded out, but it got me thinking about the rest of the frame. There are pin holes still in the rear triangle braces to the rear cross, and the frame that I welded up is still noticeably thin, especially when you compare it to a good part of the frame. Furthermore, when I took a machinist square to the frame, even over such a short distance as the inch of frame on the top part of the c channel (actually the bottom, as I had the frame upside down), the frame rail is off 90* by about an eighth of an inch in places. Real lessons learned: -MIG welding, and grinding -Somethings cant be saved, but still should go through media blasting, as it helps a lot -Heat distortion, maybe some of that off square distortion was my fault... I highly doubt it but anything is possible... -Especially after talking to old folks, investing in a new frame is smart, and you will not regret it Direction of build: -I want it low, with really no rake, with tall tires in rear, small motorcycles in front -fenderless, but the hood is staying on. As time allows, a custom aluminum hood will be made with no louvers -Goal of build is to get this thing very light and reliable Options for frame: Ya got the good ol 32 frame and model A reproduction-kinda frames. Model A frame: All of the rails come boxed (not a huge fan), and they do not come with body holes. They are not really stamped to my knowledge, and factory touches like those for the fenders are not there, which I do not need, but I think it give the frame character. I need a new center cross member, but that is minor. Original rear cross can be saved even though it has some bad pits on the outside edges, the front one can maybe to, but mine has a little rust pick through around the holes. Also I do not really like the look of the z-ing of the frame. I might grow into it, but it just doesn't look right to me. Also, being boxed with flat plate, things such as brake lines and wires cannot be run inside of the rails, so they will stick out. Just something to consider.
I don't know which frame is best for you, only you will know that in time. I'm just glad that you are going to use something better. A good frame makes for a good build.
Search on this forum for how to build a model a frame. 2 chunks of tubing and some welding time. use the original crossmembers and there ya go.
That wouldn't be quite right. It would be square while a model a frame has tapers almost the whole length; except for three feet or so in the middle near the trans cross. I would also much rather have c channel. I have heard of a supplier of a c channel 3/16 inch frame, but have not found the supplier yet. Something I am considering however is making my own trans cross member. In other news, my rear main spring is bad, so I am thinking reverse eye while I am at it. Any preferred suppliers of one?
Tighten up all parts involved with your mechanical brakes ( I even re-indexed the clevis' and put in oversize pins) to get any slop out of the operation. Bad shit is cumulative, and a little here and a little there adds up to a lot in the end. Pick up a floater kit from Joe at "TAM's" which eliminates uneven distribution of pedal pressure, and adjust by driving ( on a side street). Key is to fix EVERYTHING, no half assed repairs ( which I know isn't your MO). I've been driving my roadster for three years with no problems, ya just gotta watch the OTHER jerks out there. Keep a safe margin between you and everyone else, and you'll be OK. ( except for the time some c#*t on a cell phone backed out of her driveway in front of me; I drove onto her lawn, gave her some choice advice, and off she went without a word).---- And stop fooling around, get a stock Model A frame, and get the freakin' car built!! ---Post # 143 is right on!! ( Sorry, it's the "Dad" in me!)
Ben, I've been following this thread from the beginning. I actually sent you a PM offering to look at your project and possibly offer some advice. I did not follow up on the offer because you got some real good advice early on in this thread. The best advice you got was to find another frame, as most thought yours was toast when exposed by dis-assembly. By following the dimensional information provided, evidently, you determined the frame to be within satisfactory dimensional limits. Unfortunately, you've learned that welding can distort steel. Don't be disappointed! This is a very valuable lesson.... probably good to happen now, before more time and money has been invested. I have welded for years, and I still get surprised occasionally by welding distortion. Start learning to weld by making simple brackets, and making small repairs. Now, find another frame and get on with building your hot rod!
I know what you are saying here, and I cannot be more with you. I have heard bad things about aftermarket clevis brackets, and mine were shot. Now I at least have the rear juice drums, and that will allow me to channel the car. Now who is a preferred supplier for model a frames? I know if I went 32, I would go with asc, but I do not know about A frames as much. I am getting a speed blaster in the mail soon so I will be able to get my wheels cleaned and painted as well as the drums; as paint near the wheel cylinder is very hard to get with paper. I will not be able to reach my car before Wednesday, but plan to get into it then. Research will be this weekend. So, where is the model a frame best to get?
If you don't want to go with a stock frame, TCI makes a pretty decent perimeter frame for around 2 grand. I had one under my first coupe, and it was a real nice heavy walled frame; very sturdy. BUT, if you want the old "hot roddy" look, that's not going to fly. To my knowledge, nobody makes an actual reproduction Model A frame; probably not enough of a market. Put all the choices in a hat and pick one out! Good Luck!-----UPDATE!!! Just saw the thread by "dentisaurus" and the frame he's building ( and that you posted on it). There's your frame!!!
Try putting up a wanted ad on here and one on the barn for a straight original frame. They're not that scarce. Even one with rust pits would be usable after blasting, or molasses bath. Just don't get one with rusted moon craters like you have now. Minor rust pits will fill with some rage or other good quality body filler, if you wanted the rails smooth. You wouldn't even have to box it if you were running a 4 banger or near original flathead. Remember, this is your first build....so keep it SIMPLE. Most abandoned projects are a result of high expectations with limited experience. Motivation will come easy when you see accomplishments. You have a lifetime ahead of you to build something more involved.... you just need a little experience!
Are you familiar with the "Gow Job" threads here on the HAMB, Ben? It sounds like the car you want to build would have many of the same characteristics as a classic Gow Job, only with a coupe body instead of a roadster. Also, although I hate to say "I told you so..." I'm glad that you've finally given up on your swiss cheese frame and are in the market for a good straight solid one as was suggested to you many posts ago. I'd suggest that you not use a repro frame, but a nice original one with all the holes as Mike Bowling said. If you're going to build a 'banger-powered Gow Job with juice brakes and a channeled coupe body you'll need most of those holes and the appearance will be just what you're looking for. Best of all, except for mounting the body most of the car will bolt together. It's great to see that you're well along the hot rod learning curve and are still enthusiastic. All long-term hot rod projects "evolve" as the builder matures in his tastes and abilities so don't feel like you're alone. Keep up the good work!
You can taper rectangular tubing. All it takes is a long narrow pie cut and some welding. If you channel your body most of the frame will be hidden. For your project I recommend a rectangular tubing frame with the exposed section from the firewall to the radiator tapered. When you fabricate your frame you can run the side rails parallel to and just inside the body's subrails. Retaining the subrails will make channeling easier and it will also keep the body aligned. You can source the tubing locally the day you need it. Finding a good frame and getting it home will take some time and possibly some travel. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No sooner did I push the button and posted the the comments above I found this: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/1931-ford-chassis.983172/
Then there's option #26. Get a good pair of stock frame rails cutoff just in back of the cowel mounts, and build the ass end with 1 1/2 x 3 rectangular tube stock. Box the front, and you've got a stock looking frame with enough strength to run any motor you want. A friend of mine did this with a '30 PU and put a Hemi in it. Mucho vroom vroom!
I just noticed this! You know what they say; you don't get old by being stupid! (Now where the hell did I put my glasses?)
Ben: I'm in the Model A frame camp on this one. Using the original running gear, it just makes since to use an A frame and I agree that you should be able to find a good one for a fair price. I'll go so far to say that you should be able to find one within a couple of hundred miles or less. A good stock frame with all the mounts and minimal repairs will save a lot of work. I love your thread and all your doing and sharing with us....keep us posted!!!. Tim
decent stock frames are getting hard to find. I bought 3 different ones and all I really like out of all three is 1 rear crossmember and a pair of rails. It takes time to find a nice frame from what I have found, but of course its your foundation so that part should be right. You could always do a 32 frame with a b trans or 39 up trans connected to your a motor and use the front a motor mount system. Basically a b model 32 chassis with a a motor swapped in.
Ok, just wanted to update as I think I have most of it sorted out. I am looking at riveting this stuff together, go the cool factor and factory look! Would be another 200 bucks all said and done with equipment... Bolts first though either way!
I still think you can probably fix your frame with some box tube and or bar stock. I've got a spare set of rails lying around. They are a bit crispy on the bottom but otherwise pretty decent as I recall (again, can be fixed with bar stock or tuning). If you decide to trash your frame, I'd take it.
Another point to consider if you want to build up your own frame is you are probably going to have to invest in making a flat, stiff table or frame to clamp your chassis to while you weld it up. Unless your work space has a pretty flat floor it will be a challenge to get everything straight, not impossible but a lot more work. May be the most straight forward way would be find a good original (tough up here) or given that there isn't much of your chassis that hasn't got really pitted, buy a frame as you suggest from dagel's. You could use a Tardel K member as that'll bolt into your new frame . Cost a lot more but if the chassis is straight and strong it'll make the rest of the project easier (and safer) If you buy a chassis, make sure you know exactly what axles, tires, steering, motor and trans you want to use. If you can give all that info to the chassis builder he can be built for the correct rake, motor mounts and suspension mounts. That should get you a roller in no time. Either way, keep it up!
[QUOTE="Bib Overalls, post: 11070162, member: 350"No sooner did I push the button and posted the the comments above I found this: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/1931-ford-chassis.983172/[/QUOTE] This looks good, and is all that you can wish for in a 80yrs+ old frame!! Take patmanta or greaser with you, for good advice!! If they know there stuff they will you safe you a lot, buy them a drink on the way home!
Keep in mind that most replacement front cross members are designed to be welded in, and are not wide enough for an unboxed frame. If you intend to run a banger, and a stock trans, you will be so much farther ahead tracking down an original frame. Aftermarket A frames are not made with stock drive trains in mind. A frames are pretty easy to find. You'll come across one for short money without too much effort. Check out these threads on A chassis based cars I built for The Race of Gentlemen. They might help some. If you have any questions, shoot me a PM. I'm only about an hour away from you, and I'm in your area often as one of our club guys lives and works near you. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/build-thread-introducing-the-silver-city-spl.723050/ http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/the-sachem-special-a-little-t-and-a-for-the-rog.933959/
The one I got from SoCal is made for an unboxed frame. It even has holes drilled for the rivets (which may or may not line up). They do require grinding on the bottom tabs to fit just right in an A frame (I believe this is by design).
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