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Projects 1931 AV8 Roadster Subassembly Build

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by So Cal Brian B, Feb 4, 2021.

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  1. Motorwrxs
    Joined: Aug 15, 2021
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    Motorwrxs
    Member
    from Middle Tennessee

    Spindles look like they are gonna work fine…good save.
     
    Motorwrxs, Apr 12, 2022
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  2. stillrunners
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
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    stillrunners
    Member
    from dallas

    Lucky I got the same Snap On set up when we closed the wrecking yard - don't really think it was ever used. Had an International truck that one side came out easy and the other side was heat heat heat !
     
    stillrunners, Apr 12, 2022
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  3. stillrunners
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
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    stillrunners
    Member
    from dallas

    Glad to hear the knees are back in better shape......I ran MotoCross in the early/mid 70's and busted my left knee in three pieces - the doc wired it together to mend and took it out the wires back when I was 15....been good since only every now and then....
     
    stillrunners, Apr 12, 2022
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  4. So Cal Brian B
    Joined: Apr 3, 2017
    Posts: 295
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    So Cal Brian B

    Thank you Motorwrxs!! They look much better cleaned up than I had anticipated.

    I love old tools and this one made what seemed an impossible job possible!!

    Glad you mended. I am looking forward to a healthy future without too many issues. Fingers crossed!!
     
    So Cal Brian B, Apr 12, 2022
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  5. Outback
    Joined: Mar 4, 2005
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    Outback
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from NE Vic

    Found your thread, will follow along. Playing with an early A RPU with a banger at the moment. Looking forward to seeing this come together!
     
    Outback, Apr 15, 2022
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  6. So Cal Brian B
    Joined: Apr 3, 2017
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    So Cal Brian B

    Thanks Outback!!
     
    So Cal Brian B, Apr 15, 2022
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  7. Happydaze
    Joined: Aug 21, 2009
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    Happydaze
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Barnston, England

    Pics now working fine, and I'm enjoying the ride!

    Chris
     
    Happydaze, Apr 15, 2022
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  8. So Cal Brian B
    Joined: Apr 3, 2017
    Posts: 295
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    So Cal Brian B

    Happy Easter Weekend everyone!!

    It was Ford Banjo Saturday and I was able to get the axle cleaned up, cut off the rear spring hangers and break the axle down.

    There was some funk in the diff but the axle appears to have been rebuilt. The gears look they are in great shape.

    Before the cleanup:


    Stamped as 9:40 which I think would be 4.44.


    The drain and fill plugs wouldn't budge but did after some heat. I am finding that the "red" wrench as been very helpful.


    Cut the hangers off and cleaned them up as I am going with a spring over axle setup.


    Always have your face shield and safety gl***es on. Had a wheel let loose after I "bounced it" during the cutting process:


    Ready to break it down"


    She came apart fairly easily and other than a little rust and gunk it looks pretty good:


    Glad I broke it down to clean it up:

    Looks like it had some parts bouncing around in it prior to being refreshed. There were no broken teeth or parts but it looks like it had some floating around in there at one time:
    I marked the parts in order to ensure I get them back together the same way they came apart. I marked the bells and axles as well.

    The gears needs some cleaning but they look good to me:

    Looks like someone signed their rebuild. Looks like G&N but hard to read:


    I verified that it is in fact a 9-40 which would be 4.44. I have a few questions that I will ask in the next post. Thanks for checking out my build thread.

    So Cal Brian B
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2022
    So Cal Brian B, Apr 17, 2022
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  9. So Cal Brian B
    Joined: Apr 3, 2017
    Posts: 295
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    So Cal Brian B

    The rear axle is going in my 1931 roadster. The engine is .030 over 8BA with a 3/4 cam, Navarro heads and intake with dual Strombergs and a '39 trans.

    Updating post with tire size too (thanks Outback): Running 7 x 16” rears.

    I don't plan to drive on the crazy CA freeways too much and will mainly stick to local streets around town.

    Will the 4.44 ratio be okay for what I am doing? If not, any suggestions for gearing and recommended source for a new ring and pinion?

    Second question, the bearings look like they are in great shape. Any reason I can't clean everything up and re***emble ensuring I get the loads set up properly?

    Thanks,

    Brian
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2022
    So Cal Brian B, Apr 17, 2022
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  10. Outback
    Joined: Mar 4, 2005
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    Outback
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from NE Vic

    I don't have any first hand experience with correct ratio's etc. But one thing that will factor greatly is what size rear tyres are you going to use?
    3.78 - 3.54 are the ratio's often used, but as I said I don't have any 1st hand experience.
     
    Outback, Apr 17, 2022
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  11. So Cal Brian B
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    So Cal Brian B

    Thx Outback. I will run 7x16s on the rear.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2022
    So Cal Brian B, Apr 17, 2022
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  12. Aaron D.
    Joined: Oct 27, 2015
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    Aaron D.
    Member
    from Stayton, Oregon

    Hi Brian, I have higher gears in mine (I think 3:73) and wish they were a little higher. I think the 4:44 are to low for a street driven car with a Flathead. If the bearings are good, just clean them really good and grease them up.
    Aaron
     
    Aaron D., Apr 17, 2022
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  13. So Cal Brian B
    Joined: Apr 3, 2017
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    So Cal Brian B

    Hi Aaron,

    I hoped you would chime in. I wondered which gears you had in yours. Thanks for the feedback and for all the videos you posted during your build. I have your YouTube page open and have been going through your videos as I get to each step you've been through. They are very helpful!!

    Thanks,

    Brian
     
    So Cal Brian B, Apr 17, 2022
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  14. hotrodA
    Joined: Sep 12, 2002
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    hotrodA
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Murfreesboro, TN, USA. (The Murf)

    I have a rear end for my vintage sprint car with 4.44 gears.
    The guy I got it from said that it was from V8-60 car, FWIW.
     
    hotrodA, Apr 18, 2022
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  15. Kiwi 4d
    Joined: Sep 16, 2006
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    Kiwi 4d
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Levin, New Zealand

    With 4.44 gears you will be in 2nd gear just after you gross the white paint line 3145 rpm at 60mph .3.78 gears 2677rpm at 60mph.
    We are fitting 4.44 gears to our columbia 2 speed rear behind a hot banger ,2266 at 60mph
     
    Kiwi 4d, Apr 18, 2022
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  16. So Cal Brian B
    Joined: Apr 3, 2017
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    So Cal Brian B

    Thank you for the information hotrodA!!

    Thank you Kiwi 4d!! The more I learn and receive advice, I am leaning towards the 3.54 gears.
     
    So Cal Brian B, Apr 18, 2022
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  17. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 11,618
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    Atwater Mike
    Member
    from Atwater, CA. USA

    I had 4.44 rear in my '32 Five window Hiboy in 1958. 304" flattie with '37 Lincoln box, 26 tooth gears.
    Fastest car in town! (for a city block...Top speed was somewhere south of 80 MPH.!)
    Older friend in our club loaned me his Quickchange. Took pity on me...:rolleyes: I was 16.
    Say, Brian... Did you remove the wishbone yet? Nice job on those spindles. LOVE those Genuine Ford Parts!!!
     
    Atwater Mike, Apr 18, 2022
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  18. So Cal Brian B
    Joined: Apr 3, 2017
    Posts: 295
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    So Cal Brian B

    Thanks for the input on the gear ratio A****er Mike!

    Thanks for the feedback on the spindles. The genuine parts are so well made. I haven't tackled the wishbone yet. I keep glancing at it when I walk by it. I may have a go at those perch pins soon. It would be cool to use them as well. More original parts the better!!

    Brian B
     
    So Cal Brian B, Apr 18, 2022
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  19. So Cal Brian B
    Joined: Apr 3, 2017
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    So Cal Brian B

    Long overdue for an update as I have been making some good progress over the last three weeks. I work for an amazing company that allows us to take a 4 week sabbatical once every 5 years so I decided to utilize this benefit to complete projects around the house and work on the roadster. I have an amazing and supportive wife that has continued to tell me to work on the car and worry about the house stuff later. I am a very lucky man!!

    I scheduled the sabbatical four weeks back from the LA Roadster Show just in case I was lucky enough to get the car moving and might take it to the show. After the first week of the sabbatical I knew that I wouldn't be close to getting the car finished but I am just pleased at how far I have come while balancing all the other projects I wanted to complete as well.

    Alright, enough background and I will try to bring this thread up to where I am currently with a week to go on my time off. The first task that I completed was to build a 3'x8' bench from extra wood and plywood that I had around the house. I put it on casters and mounted an old Athol vise that I had on it. You will see it in many of the pictures and it has been a lifesaver!! I made it super tall and it has worked well for me as I am tall. My back has appreciated the extra height as I have spent hours in front of that bench over the last three weeks. I was able to make some room in the garage and have been using the bench inside but will roll it out once I am ready to bring the frame in. I put a shelf in the bench and separated all of my sub***embly parts into boxes. I was surprised how much of the build parts I had ac***ulated over the past few years and it was amazing to see them all together in one place.

    I will update the progress on the next post with pictures and break them down by sub***embly.

    Thanks for following along and thanks to all of the contributors to the forum that have helped me to get these tasks completed.

    Brian B
     
    So Cal Brian B, Jun 10, 2022
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  20. So Cal Brian B
    Joined: Apr 3, 2017
    Posts: 295
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    So Cal Brian B

    I was able to find a nice used 3.54 ring and pinion and proceeded to clean them up and replace all of the races and bearings in the rear end. What a job!! I really didn't want to rebuild the entire rear end but once I heeded the advice on changing from the 4.44 rear I decided to do it and do it all for peace of mind.

    It took a compilation of puller parts to pull the bearings so please don't laugh when you see my methods. It worked and I didn't break anything so that's a bonus.
    New ring and pinion. 11/39
    My puller
    Ring bearing pulled
    Other bearing pulled
    I put the parts in the freezer overnight and the new bearings pressed on with ease. I used the old bearing to get the new bearings that last 1/8" to bottom out.
    I cleaned the axle threads with my "new" thread cleaner.
    Laid out my parts to begin the re***embly of the ring and drive shafts.
    I was able to warm my banjo and drop the pinion in with ease.
    Next I took a page from Aaron D's book and made a inner bell cleaner. I told my wife that Aaron D made me do it!!
    I knocked the races out of the bell housings and cleaned them up.
    Old race
    Found a newspaper gasket in one of the bells which I thought was pretty cool.
    Bells all cleaned up!! What a dirty job!!
    Ring, spiders and axles ***embled and the cleaned up bolts safety wired and ready!!
    I decided to remark the banjo so the next owner would know that it is a 11/39 (3.54) rear end.
    These came in handy when setting my pinion.
    Once I had a ***embled and re***embled the banjo about a half dozen times using a variety of gasket thickness for both the p***enger and driver side, I was happy with the drag and had just over .005 of back lash. Rearend rebuild complete!!

    I'll continue on the next post.

    Thanks for following,

    Brian
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2022
    So Cal Brian B, Jun 10, 2022
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  21. J.Ukrop
    Joined: Nov 10, 2008
    Posts: 3,630
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    J.Ukrop
    SUPER MODERATOR
    from San Francisco, CA
    Staff Member

    Brian, nice work on the banjo. Switching to the 3.54s will make a world of difference, I’m sure. Thank you for the informative update!
     
    J.Ukrop, Jun 10, 2022
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  22. So Cal Brian B
    Joined: Apr 3, 2017
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    So Cal Brian B

    I wanted to get the rear end complete and ready to put under the frame so I tackled the spring attachment next. I was able to carefully un***embled the spring pack and get the spring attached to the banjo. The 2x4" wood blocks and the strap made the job easy. Since I am working by myself I have had to work smarter and not harder.

    I pulled three springs out from the pack and added my rear spring hangers and rear shock mounts to the rear end ***embly. I failed to get a picture of the final product but will try to add it later. My neighbor has been a lifesaver!! Once I had the rear end all rebuilt and ***embled, it was too heavy for me to safely lift it off the bench and back onto it's rolling cart. He helped me to get it off the bench so that I could set it aside and move onto the next task.

    Brian
     
    So Cal Brian B, Jun 10, 2022
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  23. So Cal Brian B
    Joined: Apr 3, 2017
    Posts: 295
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    So Cal Brian B

    Sorry for the big data dump. I had planned on updating the thread at the end of each day or at a minimum the end of each week but to be honest I have been pretty exhausted at the end of each day. I will be up to date as of today and then try to keep the thread somewhat real time moving forward.

    I next moved onto the frame. The frame is in amazing shape and has mostly surface rust. I fixed some cracks in the front crossmember and then decided it was a good idea to fill in any unused holes in the frame. I welded and grinded for a couple of days off and on to try to make the frame as nice as possible. I never realized how long, hot and tiring it is to fill holes in a model A frame. It's been hot here so I worked on the frame in the mornings when I had some shade on that side of the house and then moved inside to work out of the sun on other projects. I was able to get most of the holes filled forward of the front body mounts and I am pleased so far with the progress. I also went along the entire top of the frame rails with a straight edge and a large crescent wrench and straightened up just a couple of areas that needed attention.

    I was also able to weld in my rear shock mounts that I fabricated earlier.
    I also used my Tardel F1 housing plate to mark out my new steering box mount. I filled one of the old holes, drilled two new ones and put some temporary soft bolts in there in order to cut out my new hole. That is planned for this morning.

    The frame is looking pretty good at this point. I hope to get the frame inside today or tomorrow and add the front and rear end. Then I can move on to start to get the engine in place.

    Brian
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2022
    So Cal Brian B, Jun 10, 2022
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  24. So Cal Brian B
    Joined: Apr 3, 2017
    Posts: 295
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    So Cal Brian B

    I took a break from welding holes and grinding to tackle the fabrication of a new gas pedal. I am following both of Vern Tardel's books along with his "Let me help you" series along with all the information on the HAMB. I feel like you are all here with me ***isting in the build!!

    I started with a couple of s**** pedal ***emblies as one had been modified and the other was in original shape. I broke them down and used the same half of the shaft housing from both in order to build a new unit with a collared bolt on each end. I had to shorten the shaft to match the template in the Tardel book. I welded the two halves together and then cleaned it up.

    The actual shaft is then too long so I shortened it and then drilled a new hole for the pedal attachment in the same plane as the old hole.

    Started with parts

    I used a hose clamp to keep my cuts straight.
    Used one of the rods as a holder for the two pieces while I welded it. The rod served as a ground clamp holder for my welder as well.
    Checking the distance vs the template.
    Added a new lubrication hole
    Used the template to determine my pedal placement along the shaft.
    Final check vs the template.
    New modified pedal on top of an original.

    I will need to clean up the ***embly and paint it later but I am happy how the pedal turned out!!

    One more task off the list!!

    Brian
     
    So Cal Brian B, Jun 10, 2022
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  25. So Cal Brian B
    Joined: Apr 3, 2017
    Posts: 295
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    So Cal Brian B

    I will give you one guess to see what I tackled next! Here is a hint:

    After cutting the hole for the speedometer I realized that even though I chose a hole saw just barely over the size of the speedometer housing the saw has some movement and the hole turned out larger than planned. I was still okay but used a 2" hole saw for the 2 1/4" gauges and then used my trusty old Craftsman grinder to enlarge and clean up the holes until the gauges dropped in. Better to start small and make the holes a bit bigger.

    In process:
    My trusty old Craftsman grinder. I use old tools as often as possible as they are well made and it fits with working on a vintage car.

    I found that once I added the Haneline straight five panel that the screws on my gauges were too short. It had been a long hot day and I was trying to figure out how to get the gauges apart to install longer screws. Admit it, we have all had these lapses of thinking when the answers are right there in front of you. I felt like an idiot when I looked at the gauge brackets and realized all that I had to do was to shorten them. I wasn't about the tear the gauges apart as I knew the solution was right there in front of me. I have learned with my advancing age that if I slow down and think my outcomes are much better and I work smarter and not harder.

    The gauges aren't clocked yet in the pictures by I am happy with the results. It's tough to get everything centered on one of these dashes as there isn't many straight edges to measure from.

    Alright, so now you are all up to speed with me and I am now ready to stop typing and get to the garage!! It has been amazing to wake up most days and know that I have basically a Saturday almost every day. I have been able to get so much done and have the expectation that I will finish this roadster soon and be able to drive and enjoy it.

    Thanks for following along,

    Brian
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2022
    So Cal Brian B, Jun 10, 2022
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  26. So Cal Brian B
    Joined: Apr 3, 2017
    Posts: 295
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    So Cal Brian B

    Thanks Joey!! Your build thread has been an inspiration for me!!

    Brian
     
    So Cal Brian B, Jun 10, 2022
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  27. roll of the dices
    Joined: Jul 15, 2010
    Posts: 1,349
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    roll of the dices
    Member
    from Los Angeles, CA

    Great thread Brian. Keep that great work and pictures coming!
     
    roll of the dices, Jun 10, 2022
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  28. So Cal Brian B
    Joined: Apr 3, 2017
    Posts: 295
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    So Cal Brian B

    Thank you for the kind words. My work isn't nearly as nice as yours. I have been following your thread and have enjoyed watching you build. Your work is amazing!!
     
    So Cal Brian B, Jun 11, 2022
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  29. So Cal Brian B
    Joined: Apr 3, 2017
    Posts: 295
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    So Cal Brian B

    Spent most of the day cleaning up the garage and trying to make room for the frame and some space to work around it. I really need to get rid of some things.

    My 1 7/8" hole saw arrived late last night and I was able to drill out the steering hole in the frame and clean up the hole. Once again I used a couple of old power tools for the job. Very pleased with the way the steering is shaping up.

    Another job done.

    Brian
     
    So Cal Brian B, Jun 11, 2022
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  30. So Cal Brian B
    Joined: Apr 3, 2017
    Posts: 295
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    So Cal Brian B

    I pulled out the rear end ***embly for a couple of pictures.

    I am using a reversed eye Model T spring from Matt at Old Yankee through Millworks that I purchased quite some time ago. I removed three springs to start to see where I end up. I did not z my frame and I am hopeful I can get the stance I want.

    I need to make spacers for the lower shock mounts. Thanks Dave Havilar for the excellent spring over setup and thanks to pure hotrods for the lower rear shock mounts.

    Also pulled out the front suspension for a pictures. Using a 4" dropped Model A axle from Okie Joe, a '32 wishbone and the original spindles that I pulled from my '40 front end purchase. I am using a Speedway Super Glide front reverse eye front spring.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2022
    So Cal Brian B, Jun 11, 2022
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