my question, is and always has been, WHY?? if you have an open drive (later) rear run a later trans. if you have a banjo rear, keep it closed drive as it works better that way. to me the only way a 39 trans makes sense is to run it closed drive, but to each their own. any half ton ford pickup truck from 40-48 will have exactly the trans you are looking for. they are 39 style toploaders with open drive rears.
Some '42-'50 half ton V8 trucks had the open drive ('39 style) 3 spd and some had the heavy duty 4 spd. Some '48-'50 1/2 ton 6 cyl trucks had the V8 style open drive 3 spd some had the HD 4spd. '42-'47 1/2 ton 6 cyl 3 spds had a different bell than the V8s I have been told, but the gears are supposed to be the same so I would ***ume that the parts to convert to open drive would be the same.
skid, never heard of a HD 3 spd.??? from what I gathered all gears in a 39 up style only differed in things like tooth count, syncro style and spline twist. also, on the flathead six trans. I would be surprised to hear it had a different bellhousing. never saw one, but I did see one of the 41 ford pickups that used the 8n tractor banger in it. it had a small cast iron adapter that went between the motor and the standard truck 3 speed.
Pickup trans after 1950 had 78 case, different tooth profile and splinage, so can only be used as a whole, earlier pickup parts can be swapped into p***enger car parts to a considerable extent...I believe the HD trans was an unrelated unit. This olde post covers interchange/ID 101.
And I fully agree on use of '39 trans and banjo rears...sole reason to use is that they provide a quick and easy route to excellent, bind-free suspension. Delete the torque tube and you have a pile of primitive, expensive junk with lots of better, cheaper, stronger choices available, AND you are stuck with a variety of poor choices in suspension location devices or the need to think and fabricate to retain decent geometries.
I had one in a '51 1/2 ton I parted out. I never looked at the case but it was certainly a HD 3 speed with a granny 1st.
banjo, I always called the description you just gave a 4spd?? 3 usable gears and a super low first for pulling loads?? I never checked a truck ****** to see what the case # actually was. just ripped em apart and put sideshift gears into them to make closed drive car trannies.
I'm going for a late 1940's era on my a. I have a zephyr geared 39' but I'm gonna run a quick change with an open yoke. So only up to 1950 will trucks will work? I have what I thought was a 51 truck ****** for a doner, but it is top shift. so bueno or non bueno???
The '51-2 gears have to be used as a set. Splines and teeth differ. Look at the teeth, you should be able to see the different shape if the trans is late. Also, I think they came with a 27 tooth ge****t, something that never existed in earlier units. '42-50 ones are compatible with earlier parts.
look at the mack van pelt site for interchange info on the 51 trans. it's got all the dirt. as for the "late 40's era" build you're open drive doesn't follow the build. put a torque tube on the quickie and call it good! it will bolt right on easier than changing gears in the ******. that is, if you even have an early quick change. if you've got a later converted 9" axled deal i don't know what fits or doesn't, but that would still not fit your late 40's build.
What about a late 40's early 50's car three speed? They are open drive, and can be had with electric overdrive.
I have an OPEN DRIVE Top Shift trans that i rebuilt using a NON OVERDRIVE Mercury side shift as a Gear Doner. It DONE & Ready to run & has not been used since the build. I would sell it outright or if you have a CLOSED DRIVE TOP SHIFT trans with a good Cluster Gear i would use that in trade for Core Value on the trans i have. P/M me if your are interested.
Now that you say that, a 4 sp. is probally more accurate. I also equate the 4 sp. to the ones with the PTO on the side of the case.
guys already got all the parts to do the swap and he claims the trans he's got has zephyr gears in it (just a $/show gimmick, don't you know EVERY 39 trans has zephyr gears in it lol) if they really are zephyr gears they are worth a pretty penny. He really should just listen to bruce on this one....
I was offering him an option to achieve what he is trying to do. I know ALL ABOUT what Bruce is trying to explain, Been There Done That ! If it were me i would leave the trans alone & make the Proper arrangments to go Closed Drive on the Quickie. But then again, I know the General Poulation thinks there is only 2 or 3 guys on the HAMB that know anything ( No Offence to Bruce ) So i will Shut up & let this one Ride...
sorry, just sounded like the deal you were explaining was a bit one sided. Core value doesn't begin to cover what a usable set of zephyr gears goes for..... then again, done and ready to use is worth alot to some people.
So it sounds like i have some reading to do. And closed rear is always an option. Ill make a positive id on my doner ****** and go from there, thank you guys for the help/input. p.s. i don't think running zephyr gears is a gimmick, or any different than buying an original edelbrock intake rather than ordering a new one out of their catalog. Just paying homage to the way things were.
"sorry, just sounded like the deal you were explaining was a bit one sided. Core value doesn't begin to cover what a usable set of zephyr gears goes for..... " Kev, I'm only guessing, but it may be that De Soto was busy pecking away at the keyboard when Koffin posted his Zephyr info. Could be wrong, and De Soto might be a reeeeally sly fox ... For De Soto .... "But then again, I know the General Poulation thinks there is only 2 or 3 guys on the HAMB that know anything ( No Offence to Bruce )" Reminds me of the much-told story about the guy with the small *****. When his buddies in the locker room ragged on him, "Who you goin' to please with that little thing?" He replied, "Me!" Posting on message boards is the same. Don't be in a contest to please everyone. They can ignore your advice. As long as you're having a good time BS'ing about whatever comes up on the board, fine. The only person I have to please out in my shop is .... me.
Vanpelts site suggests that there was a HD syncro 3 spd after '48 that used the HD case not the 78 case (no experience so I cannot say anything for sure) Vanpelts has listed for sale all of the parts you need for the swap, you might find them at Joblot also. I have seen the parts sell on fleabay for a ton of money as well as really cheap, I just did a search there but found nothing with my terms, I normally just search generic terms like "flathead transmission" etc. The '51 might work out for you, but you need to check it out well, I guess I do remember that I have heard that the early '51 might have been toploaders also. As Bruce said above one thing to look at is MDG ratio, the '51 side shifters that I have seen have the 27/16 and had chisel like teeth. If the ratio is 28/16 or 29/15 it is likely the older style gears with teeth that are a little more square and this likely will work for you. Of course nothing with these things is absolute unless the seller is going to guarantee what they have, because as was said above you can swap all of the later style gears into the toploader box (but the probability of finding this swap is not high at all) On another note, when I did the search on fleabay, I found this trans for sale with a 71G6-319617 engine number, this makes it a '47 6 cyl, notice the nice hump on the drivers side of the bell (I posted the pict on photobucket to outlast the auction - that's actually the first time I saw an older 6 cyl trans and backs up what I have read) :
You Are Correct, When i posted i had a Trans ready to go i Had Not seen the Zephyr Gear Post. I was just offering an altrenative and in hopes i could get an Early Cluster to fix another Closed Drive trans i have... No Harm -- No Worry's I dont know what you are Gettin at with the ***** story, But there are more People than the Chosin Few That know a thing or 2 about Old Parts.
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