Our customer finally decided to run a big 500ci 409 motor coupled to a 5 speed transmisson and go with the 9" ford rear end for reliabilty. He also want's air suspension on his Merc that can lay frame when desired but more important it must drive very well at Hwy speeds as it will not be no trailer queen. We looking into buying an aftermarket frames & suspension kits but could not find anything to realy work for this build. So I decided to rework his stock frame as it was in very good condition. We decided to box the main rails and x member to keep the frame from flexing due to all the tork this 409 puts out. In the rear we only need to C notch the frame to get it to lay frame and then we fabed up a ladder bar set up with air bags mounted to them. For the front suspension it was a little more tricky to do but after alot of thinking and measuring I decided to use 2gen Nova aftermarket A-arm and 1st gen Camaro dropped spindles. These A-arms & spindles are beefy and the suspension geometry worked out well for this build. Compaire the pics of the frame raised up 9" and set on the ground. You will see there is very little camber change unlike MII set ups. We also set the wheel flange track wight 1" narrower than stock for added tire to fender clearnce and caliper to wheel clearnce.
Looks great Rick. I know your customer is super excited. He's on the HAMB everyday posting something new. Whats the plan for the body mods?
Out of curiosity, why a 2 link? There are so many disadvantages. I just wanted to know what advantage made you go with this set-up? Thanks in advance.
Disadvantages ???? Do you know this from experince or just here say? We have been bagging car for well close to 20 years now and have used about every option you can think of. The 2 link set up has proven it self to me and my customers over the years with more than great results. The only neg I see with a 2 link set up is when people build them way to ridget so you get very little to no up and down side to side twist. What we do to correct this is to install large press in rubber bushings at the front main pivot and at the axle mounting plates alowing for some up and down twist. This works very well on a street car but would not be very good on a rock crawler. The other reason is the pion angle gets smaller as you lower the car resulting in much less or no tunneling of the floor pan to clear the drive shaft. We set the pinon to drive shaft angle at -2deg at max lift and when on the ground it has a -8deg and at ride heigth its about -3 or -4deg so there is no drive shaft viberation due to the 0deg issue. Also the front U joint angle is more stable than a 4 bar set up. U joins will easily last for many years even at 6 to 8degs just look at any lifted 4x4 truck.
Going by what i have been told from my set up. I have not seen the issues i have been told i would have but thought i would ask. Sorry. No disrespect intended. Just gathering info for myself for future reference. Thanks again.
that looks great,i am sure your customer will be very happy with the ride...mine rides great..triangulated 4-link in rear,with sleeved bags,and mustang bagged in front.your setup in front looks a lot more stable than mine. only thing you might want to check...that front chin and grille hang so far out front,i was shocked on mine when i let the air out,i have about one inch clearance between the ground and the lower chin.i had to remove the dropped spindles from the mustang front or i would have had to dig a hole for the chin to sit in everytime i dropped it..the setup you have looks like you could drop it even lower.scares me to death,the thought of having to come up with another grille...i do realize thats what bump stops are for
Nice stuff! I have a 40 Merc coupe that I plan to get to in about 2 years -- this build may help me decide on the suspension setup. I like what I'm seeing in the front - hopefully you're willing to share the specifics of the setup Thanks for the post! B&S
No problume here, Glad you want to learn. The rear suspension setup I dislike the most on a bagged steet car is the triangelated 4 link. Mostly because the upper control arm needs ball type pivots on both end to keep from binding when raised & lowered but most kits come with cheap plastic bushing that wear out very fast. Even if you would use quailty heim joints they will wear out fairly fast in this aplacation and are also squeeky. The other is the upper control arm is in a bad spot for a bagged car requiring major floor pan mods. The one I like the most for a very nice street crusier is a 3 link with a very long center link with the front pivot attached closed to the transmission but the neg is you usally will have to tunnel the floor pans.
Hmmm: That sounds like the 'torque arm' setup that I created last year for our road-race Fox-body mustang. The torque arm has rigid mounts at the differential, is as long as possible (mounts up by the tranny) and uses a shackle (to handle the length changes due to ride-height changes) and a large heim end for mounting between the shackle plates. The heim end allows a rotation of the 3rd link when the body or rear needs a side-to-side roll. This setup has been super successful in road-racing and many of the top-notch Mustang guys switched over from 4-links or "short' upper 3 links to this setup.
this is what i ended up doing. I am adding a panhard bar cuz under hard cornering she moves side to side a bit. The arms are real long and the pinion angle changes no more than 1 degree through the whole travel. She rides real nice, and has no virbations. Unless of course, you have the ass end all the way down and the front standing real tall. Not really at ride height. Here it is mocked up. The bushings are all poly and are about 1/2 thick and greasable. I do not like squeeks either. This set-up has plenty of flex so far. these are the floor pan mods i had to make. I know not every car is the same. But it took very little to get this right. The small humps hide under the seat and the other is just behind the seat in the trunck. This is just under where the air tank is now located. I seam sealed the new humps and covered it all in roll on bed linig for the professional look. thanks for the input and thanks for the understanding that i am still learning a bit. Suspension gets the best of me sometimes. Wish i had a book to keep about this stuff. Do you know of one?
Hey thanks for your imput. Know all to well about the chin/grill issue. The 1939 Ford is for sale asking $25k Got any pics of your 40 Merc convert ? Would love to see them
Ok just got the 6 speed auto transmisson from TCI and it is way bigger than I had planned for so I cut the X member out and reversed it front to back to move the X member center towards the rear to clear this big transmisson. While the X member was out I boxed the main rails and are going to be boxing the X member as well. When done this orginal frame will be just as strong as any aftermarket frame but will still look stock to most.
Frame is now fully boxed and welded. Now I can fab up the 409 motor & 6sp trans mounts and a few other brackets and with a coat of satin black paint the frame will be ready to go back under the body . Cant wait for the body to get mounted back on the frame so i can start CUTTING !!!!!!
Nascar uses a truck arm suspension, similar to your setup, and it works for them. Reversing the X member is a pretty cool solution. Is there going to me more fab work to set the bags in the front? I would like to see pics of how that goes. Thanks,
That frame is really nice. Looks like it's made for a tank.... I love this car.. I wish we had a phtoshop guy reading this thread I'd love to see it in a solid color, black, marrone, rust....
last week we finished the motor and transmisson mounts and added a few extra suspension gussets. Now we can finally fab the mounts for the front bags and the power steering rack.
I am always amazed at the knowledge and craftmanship of you guys that are truely professional builders. And heartened by the pride all of you take in your work.
Take something old and make it better? thats the definition of Traditional? I'm sorry, but a crate motor, ifs, disk brakes, and airbags is traditional on a Camaro. This is really nice work, and I am sure its going to be a great running and driving car, hell, I wish it was mine. But it isnt a traditional hotrod or Kustom. This is a street rod.
Glassguy let me assure you this will be no f#&@ing STREET ROD nor will it be a simple boring no gamble traditional custom build that just about anyone with a little skill can BUILD. It will be a KUSTOM spelled with a K for a reason and not a C as it will be an Extreme Kustom !!!!!!!! But in a few years from now when other builders start cloning this build or parts of it it will then become Traditional. We went way out of our way to retaine the stock 1940 Merc frame when we could of easily just made a simple box tube frame with a Mustange 11 thats under many of traditional customs I now of. I personall think and are sure others fell the same way a dual quad 409 motor is definitly in the class of being traditional. Rick Erickson
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