1950 shoebox front suspension advice

Since I had great luck on this forum, finding lots of answers, I think I'll give it another go

My 1950 Shoebox will be getting a 300HP powerplant, and I really would like to handle it way better than the stock suspension. As far as the rear suspension goes - everything is clear to me, 4link with narrowed Ford Explorer rear axle with disc brakes.

But for the front...
My research so far come up with these options:
1. Leave it as is, just update with Ford Aerostar springs, and get a brake disc conversion kit with dropped spindles.
2. Mustang 2 front subframe - there are so many manufacturers, which one is the best bang for the buck? In terms of installation difficulty and handling.
3. Chevy S10 clip - this does look like a lot of hassle, not sure if is it worth it?
4. Some other way, which I haven't found yet.

Please share your experience. Thanks!

 

Option 2 and 3 not discussed on this site. In my 53, I used option 1. Dropped spindles changes the geometry, and a camber kit is required. As far as the rear, the Explorer axle being at 59" is going to have clearance issues in the rear wheel wells unless you choose your wheels and tires carefully or narrow the axle. The explorer axle pinion is 2" off center, and if lowering the car you may have to alter the driveshaft tunnel.

 

I run Aerostar springs up front, stock leaves out back with lowering blocks and a Maverick rearend. 4 wheel drums work just fine. Pretty healthy 302 and a C4 for power.

 

don't get me wrong, but both 2-3 options I found info on this site - that's why I'm posting it here
I'm gonna narrow Explorer rear end - so it must fit without major issues.
The driveshaft tunnel will be modified to accommodate the new transmission - that is in the plan too.

 

You are very brave man, I've tried running ~40mph on stock suspension and I was scared to death the car basically drives where it wants...

 

Believe it or not a lot of ppl drove these cars everyday. And on crappy tires nonetheless. Rebuild what's there and it'll last another 70+ years.

 

If the car "drives where it wants", then something is wrong. Camber, caster, or toe in out of adjustment or bushings are worn out. The springs and dropped spindles will drop the front about 4 inches, but as I previously stated, a camber kit will allow better adjustment. The only drawback to the original suspension is the caster, in which there is limited adjustment. The other options you mentioned will get more with better high-speed tracking.

 

Mine is a sweet driving car.
They had a reputation of being good handling cars.
On this trip I had to overtake and get around some traffic. I got into the gas. She wanted to go so I let it go for a little bit. Let’s just say she’ll run on the top.
For a car of this age it handles beautifully. It’s a real joy. It brings a joy. It brings a smile to my face.

It’s unrestored. I’m running a stock 239 flathead. Stock wheels, stock suspension and stock brakes. For tires I’m running 15” Coker BF Goodrich Silvertowns.
The car will handle much much better than the tires will allow.
It’s been well kept and it drives really good.

The mods you want to do are pricy. Personally I think it’s a big waste of money.
I also think you may be depriving yourself of the experience. The experience of how well these cars in good condition actually are.
It is a skill. You have to drive these cars.

Your problems are probably steering gear, king pins and front end adjustment.
All of these are repairable.


A 49-51 Shoebox tight and in spec is an absolute blast to drive.

Many have the idea old cars suck and need to be improved. Really they just need to be repaired, not redesigned.

 

I'm sure there is something worn out. Car is 74 years old, and looks pretty stock
Thats why i'm confused about its handling, i'm sure I want to update it, but if i spend quite a lot on upgrade, and barely feel it - that will be a very big dissapointment, hence my original post, should I repair whats original, or dont wast time and money and upgrade to something better

 

I like your way of thinking! Yes its a blast to drive, its not about the track lap times or 0-60 times, its all about the experience but in modern traffic, especially in Eastern Europe where i live, roads are not so wide and perfect like you have there - mostly i want to update just for safety reasons, to cope with todays traffic challenges.

Like i mentioned before, as i have no experience and no opportunity to test how does shoebox handle in mint condition (mine is first and only in Lithuania) dumping big money and feeling minor improvement, i dont want that. Also, we all must agree that handling, is mostly how you feel behind the wheel. Some like sharp cars, some of us like floating comfy cars. Its all about personal preference.

As the oldest car i have ever driven was 1988 vw rabbit, could you compare it to any other more modern car, just for me to understand what can i expect from stock shoebox suspension?

 

I have Fat Man dropped spindles for 2.5" of drop on my '49 Meteor with stock engine. I also had 2" lowered Jamco springs, but 4.5" of drop was too low. The front end was a couple of inches from the ground, the ride was harsh, steering was limited and the lower A arm was way below the scrub line. Ordered some replacement stock springs from Easton and am back to just the dropped spindles. I also have a Jamco front sway bar. Rear was 2" lower springs from Jamco and a 1" block with a 4 degree wedge but was having some pinion angle issues that I could not resolve and it was a pain to remove the rear wheel. So, I am back to the 2" springs only. I also have a Jamco rear sway bar. Happy with the handling except for the steering but there is only so much that can be done for the '49 steering.

 

For some reason, my response last night isn't showing up.. so here it is again... the best I remember....

You might get some ideas here.. I used an S-10 front clip and a Jag XJS rear end, among a few thousand other mods...
https://www.49fordcoupe.com/

 

I saw your build on this web page, but how does it feel? Is it like night and day?
In other words, would you do it again? Or its not worth the effort?

 

There are more options than the 3 you listed and of them the S-10 unit requires core support mods to clear the steering box if I remember right. Not good in my book. 49 Ford Coupe can verify that I believe. There is another as shown in this phot and runs a Stock style Rad and a stock steering column unit. No cut coils or Airostar springs. You couldn't give me a Fat Man unit. Under my hood is SBC and 7-00 R 4. with 380 HP at the tires, drives like a slot car on mountain roads. Not HAMB friendly but looks like it should be.

 

My english might not be perfect, but do i understand correctly, it runs on stock suspension and handles good with 380hp???

I've posted same question on hotrodders forum, if there is illegal to mention some mods

 

Well, I never drove it with the stock frame, as you may have seen on my website, I bought the car with "NOTHING" in it, and the first thing I did was pull the frame out and ditch the very poorly installed Camaro clip. But the bottom line is that it handles beautifully.. I sometimes call The Judge a "schizophrenic luxury car"... go to the "building the frame" gallery and check it out.,... I always had intentions of building my LAST car, and I spent 8 years nearly every day to build it. So some folks aren't that patient, or are 80 years old and a retired engineer who has determined to do it "one last time".... but/and with the S-10 clip, the 383 slipped right in without much trouble...

 

To keep the existing steering column it IS necessary to install a pair of universals with a heim joint to hook it up to the S-10 steering box. I like the fact that the S-10 steering box/column has a collapsible connector on it (just in case) and if one goes with an SBC, you can get aftermarket headers to fit around the steering shaft.

See: on page 2
https://www.49fordcoupe.com/Prepping-for-Engine

 

For the steering shaft, scroll down here..

https://www.49fordcoupe.com/Under-the-hood-modifications

 

As for the two "front legs" of the body mounts, scroll down here ... That was no big deal.. 0.01% of the work...

https://www.49fordcoupe.com/Rebuilding-body

 

[QUOTE My english might not be perfect, but do i understand correctly, it runs on stock suspension and handles good with 380hp???[/QUOTE]

No it does not run Stock Suspension, but it's not M-2 or S-10. It does run a slightly modified steering column, steering wheel and stock shifter. These photos right here is why I would not choose the S-10.

 

Hey, Wizzard.. What's the issue?

Please tell me if you can see any of that here... so what if it's not visible? Can you be a tad more specific about your objections???
https://www.49fordcoupe.com/The-Car/i-LsNHXg8/A

The front bumper took a bit of work..
https://www.49fordcoupe.com/Adding-51-Bumpers-not-easy

 

I like things to not look hand built and cut up along with stock parts as much as possible. I'm not knocking your work just saying my way is a bit different. Here's my shot of what I like. It's always a personal thing ya know. Let's not get off course and get Shywaz locked out of this post.

 

None of my front Sheetmetal is carved up to make things work. I like that part best.

 

My Crestliner always steers easily at all speeds and with one finger around corners. Aerostar springs and disc brake conversion. Tire size matters. I use VW tires up front. With these small tires, you dont want dropped spindles. The back is sitting high with an extra leaf for hauling a boat. I am changing the rear axle and springs now.

 

Pristine engine compartment you got there, son!! And yes, we do have different preferences. But... No A/C? No Chrome? No headers? No shroud? I'm sure you have an air cleaner... And forgive me, because as you can see in this pic, she needs a little bit of "dusting off".. she's kinda dirty...(note the electronic fresh air damper operator and the vacuum boost pump for the power brakes) Driver's side fresh air duct is blocked off and converted for engine intake.

 

I did follow your build when it was happening. I didn't comment at all then because I understand the difference of outlook with these Old Cars. Many like Street Rods with all the new car attachments, I don't although I have built my share for Customers and everyone is happy. I really like my stock steering wheel and went to a little extra work to keep everything on my dash as it was in 51. Don't assume nothing is upgraded. I feel my 51 is enough Old School to work for me and today after driving it 19 years and 80K miles my Brother and I did okay. For me Air Conditioning is 60 MPH with all 4 windows down. I also have power disc brakes but without the vacuum pump, no booster on the firewall needed. No fan shroud has been needed as of yet but then I don't live in Texas. My stock radio turns on the power to a complete stereo system. Power windows and 3 speed wipers with delay operated with a stock 51 knob in the stock location. And there is more but it really don't matter, it turned out the way I like it just as yours did for you. We can only hope that the same thing happens for Shywaz once he's done with his.

 

I have done all three of the aforementioned options.

Y'all are not going to like which one gave the best handling, by a long shot.

I would add that I put a semi-hard-to-find many steering box in that one. That took care of having to cut a bunch to fit a power one.

 

So which one was the best?

 

We aren't supposed to discuss frame clips here.

 

Okay my .02 worth here…….
This car had the dropped spindles with lowering blocks under the coil spring pads with Eaton factory height springs in the front. The rear had a set of 2” dropped springs with 2” lowering blocks and a set of homemade traction bars. I ran a 347 with a 500 shot of nitrous through a C4 with a 3200 stall and factory rear with the overdrive gears (4:11). This car was a solid mid 10’s car and a daily driver for many years. Oh and it had factory brakes.


This car is bone stock except for the suspension which I called Chris at Shoebox Central and got the Aerostar springs with camber kit and dropped shocks for the front and 4” dropped springs with the longer rear shackles to give it a 5” total drop in the rear. I’ve only driven it once around the neighborhood to see how she does ride and I am impressed with the results. This route is a lot cheaper and as far as I’m concerned is the biggest bang for your buck.

Hopefully I will be driving it more whenever it cools off a bit and I’m finished with the garage renovation so I’ll be able to tell you how it is at highway speeds.