I bought a wrecked 57 Chev with the 283/283 back around 59 or so. The VIN tag reflected that this was one of the real original cars for the NASCAR circuit. At least that was what I was told. NHRA tech loved it. Shortly after I got the car back on the road I ran into a cast iron T-10 4 spd. This was the only combination that NHRA allowed at the time. I heavily researched the car and the FI. Bill Thomas indeed did offer a modified manifold however it was not legal for NHRA. At least not untill some of the heavy hitter pressured them. I had copies of nearly all of the tech manuals and article ever published back then as well as the correct manomometer for adjusting it. It really was not that hard to work with. Bill Thomas had several different size nozzels and I had all of them. It didn't take very long to get it really running strong for the day. The only really fragil part was the drive cable. I broke several right away so I always had half a dozen or so on hand as they were special order items. I even had a speedometer shop make a few with some success. Cheater slicks were not available at the time so it was hard to get moving cleanly. It still ran 104-106 mph which was what the heavies were running. Atlas Bucrons were the best tire available at the time. they were good but not even close to the slicks that came later. I was able to easily beat the 270 hp 2x4 cars and they went into the 12.6 sec very quickly when the slicks came out. My motor was installed in a small FED dragster that was very sucessful. We then put a hot cam in it and it became harder to tune. It just didn't seem to have the fuel and air capacity that the cam needed. We replaced it with a Hilborn stack injector and after a few weeks the motor came alive and ran very well. We paid for the car and the motor the first year that we ran it. I sold the Rochester for about $150. Probably ranks right up there with the dumbest things I've ever done.
This post brought back old memories. Here are some Pontiac comparisons to what he said; All of the '57 Pontiac units installed on cars were on heavily loaded '57 Bonneville Convertibles and as a result all were automatics from the factory. In '58 the F I became an across the board option on the 370 V8 of that year and was offered with a couple of horsepower ratings depending on the intended use of the vehicle. The '57 Pontiac doghouse was said to have larger passageways that flowed better than the '58 due to the steel tube and sheet steel construction. Although I had access to the '58 unit of a friend's, I never made a comparison of the two so I can't say for sure. I never broke a drive cable on the Pontiac, but I did shear off the roll pin holding the distributor drive gear to the shaft. Funny how not getting spark and fuel will stop you dead in your tracks. Lucky I guess, that it happened when I shut the car off in front of the house one night after coming home from work. I think every car nut growing up in the early 60s has fond memories of themselves or a friend using the Atlas Bucrons to good advantage. Like some years of Corvette, Pontiac used 2 four legged fuel distribution spiders instead of the one with eight legs commonly seen on a lot of years of the Corvette. In '57 in particular, the Pontiac used injectors that were brazed to the spiders instead of using injectors with retaining nuts to clamp them on the spiders like most or all the Chevrolet units had. This mean't the stock injectors couldn't be easily changed out to a larger size to accommodate the needs of larger cams and/or engines. I do know the man who had rebuilt mine, Paul Sylvestri, had several injection units modified to use the nut style injectors. This allowed him to change the injectors out at will and use larger ones offered for Corvettes when needed. He also spaced the diffuser cone out to increase the air flow through the air meter. This lessened the Venturi affect created by the diffuser cone and weakened the vacuum signals to the various ports and could wreak havoc on the idle quality when carried to extremes. I do know he ran one of these modified units with great success on a Muncie 4 speed backed 421 in his back and forth to work '57 Bonneville and even raced with an injection unit for a time with no diffuser cone at all. I remember him telling me he thought the stock injection flowed about 650 CFM and spacing out the diffuser cone was what allowed enough air flow through the unit to feed his 421. Again, I did keep my injection, but I bemoan selling off the car to this day.
You gave away my secret.!!!! I worked out the spacing idea on my own based on the operation of the units. I never ran without the cone but I did find that there was a limit as you noted. I don't really remember how much it was but against another nearly identical car I had about 5 mph on him. I also made my own dual point conversion with heavier springs on the points. They wore out quicker but they sure helped top end.
Did anyone of you guys (or dolls.) rebuild such a FI to a modern Mega Squirt kind of system without seeing it.
I ran into a guy in Tenn that had his FI rebuilt stock. As I recall it wasn't cheap. I don't know where this was done but I remember seeing an add for the service, I think was out East. As far as conversions, I think there was a repop of the manifolds for EFI made some time ago but that's all I know.
My unit is all stock and has sat on the shelf since I took it off in the late 70s, when it wasn't hiding under my desk. At this point in time all the information I acquired during the time I ran it is probably still in the back of my head somewhere and may eventually surface, but that won't help me seeking out current suppliers to find gaskets and the like for an overhaul when I attempt to use it again. I have inquired at several swap meets with a couple of venders specializing in Corvette F I, and while it might be doable to change out to the interchangeable nozzles and find overhaul parts if I needed them, it sure as hell wouldn't be anything close to cheap. Because of that, once the 421 is "freshened" I might seriously consider making my own nozzle blocks to accommodate electronic injectors and build new fuel rails that would hide inside the shroud. I have already made up aluminum intake manifold spacer blocks to replace the OEM bakelite ones used originally and allow adaptation to the later heads. Adapting a modern single butterfly EFI air meter to the doghouse without modifying either the doghouse or the shroud should be easily done also. Being familiar with Ford's EEC IV would make using their sensors and switchgear along with a fully programable AEM ECM hidden under the dash a no brainer, and give me the ability to easily tune out big motor drivability issues with a laptop. Using a crank trigger would negate the problem of adapting a ford distributor. Hiding all the modern components inside the shroud and putting all the '57 tin on the motor would help to maintain the illusion that it was still mechanical. I could always fake in water pump outlets to the heads to more closely imitate the 347 if I wanted to be as big a fraud as those putting Caddy rocker covers on a SBC, and still be far less of one than those hiding four barrel carburetors inside GMC blowers in the 70s.
Years ago my,a friend of mine who had worked in a performance garage, would trade customers with Rochester Fuelers, a new alum. intake,carb and dist. for thier units. Strait Across!! plus labor for thier units. I thought he was nuts at the time, but boy was I wrong, he made a killin', when the Corvette's started to catch on back in the middle 70's
In the late 70's, I located a F.I. unit #701436, the earliest of the units offered for 1957 and supposedly the most troublesome. It was missing the start-solenoid, and I searched long and hard to locate one -- which turned out to be failed. But I mounted this on my 57 Corvette anyway. With an electric fuel pump, I would just manually actuate the solenoid which always worked for engine prime and start. The car ran great for years with that early F.I. unit, up to that day that I drove the car to a guy who had bought it from me. The car was telling me something. Dumbest thing that I have ever done.
I just got to go thru the best Chev mueseum in the country. They had at least 8 FI units. One on a 57. Most were on vetts. All were in showroom condition. I talked to the mechanic and he said they have a hard time keeping up with them. They have many pump to dist driveshafts and won't even sell a broken one. He wouldn't say how many they have in the back room but I'll bet it is a lot.
I have had 3 early fuel injection. I had a 1959 Vette 293 hp that came with fuel injection. This was in 1960= 1966 I loved this car, it was the fastest car in our town at the time. It got 20 MPG. The down side was it was hard on plugs around town. But when I went to J18y plugs it was fine. I think the big advantage of the fuel injection is they would turn 7000 rpms right from the factory. That was a lot of rpms for a stock engine back then. Had a 1958 Vett later on I restored, I used a 57 injection at first, then switched to a 58 later on. It ran very well also. I think the biggest problem back then is nobody knew how to work on them. I was lucky because I worked on cars for a living at the time, and figured it out.
been fine tuning mine for a while now--283/283--3 spd with 3:70's-runs very well and starts well both hot and cold which was is a problem with them if not tuned properly-have been driving it around some and it is quite responsive for what it is-love the sound of the solid lifter small block-can tune the whistle in or out of it--engine is dead stock and idles at 850--no problems yet but carrying two extra drive cables-this is the 3rd time around for this setup in the past 34 yrs-used to drive it alot in the late 70's/early 80s and would take the kids and go on vacation-only issue I had was when we would go to Reno, it would foul a couple of plugs at higher altitude, would chg the plugs and we were good to go--never let me down--also use the washer/spacer trick under the diffuser cone at the drags but it really made the idle erratic as it changed the vacuum signal--it is pictured in this month's street scene mag along with our 40's
Interesting about the idle. It's been a long time but I do remember setting the idle speed quite high. About 1500 for the drag car as I recall. I was probably one of the first in the area to use a high idle to keep things clean on the drag cars. Even our later dragsters and funny cars ran high idle speeds. Today the Nostalgia funny cars run about 2600 to 3000 rpm idle. Actually the best performance was to shim the cone to just the edge of rough idle. I don't remember what the vac signal number was I did use a manomometer to check and set it however. It was often changed for the weather at the track. I kept the thing covered and hidden when I used it. The things we did back then to psych the competitors. haha This was the first car to use the split start and ignition. I separated the start function and the ignition. You spun the motor over then hit the ignition. The motor won't kick back against the starter that way. Today on my blown SBC Willys I use the stock start function but it is marginal when hot. The other thing was the FI was very sensitive to fuel contamination.
I had a 61 corvette with fuel injection ... couldnt fall out of a tree ... finally gave up on it and traded for a single holley set up off a 365 hp corvette ... it really awakened that 283 ... Joe
on my 57 I used to shim the diffuser cone with some horseshoe shaped clips about 1/8 inch think (scientific huh) and would install them at the drags, then remove before I went home-made idle jump form 850 to about 1400 and vacuum signal would drop by 2 "( an 097 cam pulls about 14.5 inches at idle)--made it run very strong but not traffic friendly at all and hard to start in this configuration. The fellow who recently rebuilt my unit (I did it twice years ago) said it had some odd stuff in it it but was from the factory?? nozzles were some he had never seen as was the air meter but were factory for sure-or back door stuff. The car in it's current state runs very well but is too old to beat on and I don't want to break it now--25 years ago, I didn't care. My first outing was in traffic and i got stuck in road work for 1 hr and 20 minutes--only had 15 miles on it--I was in panic mode but it did just fine, never loaded up or heated up--just kept idleing along at 850RPM--currently have about 200 miles on it--will see how it goes but for a 53 yr old car and technology, it runs very well and is easy to drive--the only peculiar thing is the fast idle--the way the early units were, it takes 3 min to come off fast idle, other than that it is fine-only mods now are more fuses, extra strength springs in the pts and thats about it--once warmed up, it is very nice to drive-smooth above about 1500 and away we go !!! So far have only gone to grocery store and hardware store--kinda careful with it so far but have taken it to 6000 RPMs. The fellow who rebuilt my unit has done about 200 and has done a 4900R unit that is on a vintage race Corvette with a 283 tha puts out 394HP--not too bad--he says the 4900R unit is the best of all units period.
Just in case anyone wanted these... I only saved one book from my days at the GM dealer... the last Corvette book for dealers that was printed before microfiche and computers ran amuck. If anyone would like the larger original size scans of these just pm me your email address.
I have a "BIG" Monogram 1/12 scale kit of a "fuelie" '57 Belair Sport Coupe. It's a 3 n' 1 kit and I'm not sure if I want to build a stock version of it or a strip car...
Yep. Dad caught a lot of crap for having a 4 door but it had low miles, only one owner before him, and most importantly, the fuel injection. Dad took out the glide and put a T10 in. Hot rodded the engine some. Nosed and decked it and made a custom grill. He surprised a lot of guys with his 4 door. Dad died when I was 8. Sure wish I could ask him about it. Fathers day sucks.
Ditto about Father's Day.. Wish I could have spent more time with mine before he passed away in '04..
here's my wife in the fuely today--has been to two car shows locally and won both times-have about 500 miles on it now--runs terrific-interesting listening to the experts-"they never made those"-"must be a blower"-my uncle's wife's nephew's cousin has one just like this except it's a 61 big block--kinda funny
I purchased a 63 FI Corvette as a senior in High School in 1971 for $850, needing just paint and a new top. The FI unit performed flawlessly not needing any service or adjustments up until the time I sold it in the early 80's.
I remember[sadly] walkin away from one laying on the bench after being removed from a Corvette of a friend of mine back in the day.... He said you can have that if you want it! I just didnt know anything about em and he couldn't make it run so I thought Id better stay away from it as well..... I heard one ol guy say they were fast but they only ran well in one position... WIDE OPEN. If Id'a been sharper I could have a valuable part to sell now as I see them bringing huge money restored.... I wonder if the FI Gurus are able to tweak them into perfect running order now with todays technology or if they are STILL just hi point car show fluff.....
I knew Bill back in those days in Anchorage and can vouch for the F 100. I also ran Roch F Is back then, one on a 57 Vette and one on a 59 El Camino. They ran fine, summer or winter. However we ran Chevron "Custom Supreme" 104 octain then with NO EMISSION ADDITIVES" back then. As mention earlier, they are vacuam sensentive and many of the problems began when folks switched to a longer duration cam and solid lifters chancing the vac siginal to the "Power Enrichment System" and would start adjusting it and getting way out of whack. Many were brought to me to straighten out. A few simple adjustments and all was well. Have a couple Friends nowadays that have removed them cause with todays fuels, they wont run well and leak/seep. Todays additives raise hell with the old generation gaskets and rubber/neoprene parts. I still have 4 of the units left for different projects, maybe someday!!! LOL (BTW Bill, it was the "BUNN DRIVE IN" on Northern Lights Blvd and the "COKE" show with Ron Moore atop in the "Chicken Coop"!! Last time I talked to Ron, He still had his Black and Silver 57 "Fueler" Vette!!
Bought a 63 fuelie vette one year old, 360 HP. It was a 538 dollar option over the standard engine. Had absolutely no problems with it except it broke a couple of the drive cables that went from the distributor to the injection pump. It took like 5 minutes and two dollars to change it! Kept a spare in the glove box. The unit worked just great, driveability was far superior to the carb setup.
The Jalopy Journal
