Projects 1961 Chrysler basket case, mild custom

What a roller coaster ride!! Great to see you still plugging away on it. I'll have to come down and take a look

 

This is a labor of love.... and I love it!

 

I've got the rear doors about spot on, the fronts aligned to them fairly well. The fenders are happy. The hood is giving me fits for almost a year now and I'm ready to light it on fire or farm it out.

I spoke to @wheeldog57 and he wants to take a crack at the body panel alignment issues I'm having. I'm pretty sure he's going to solve all my problems, and then I'll be handsome and rich.

 

So, hear me out.

The firewall was cut at the base and moved forward to fit the floor in.

Does this mean the hinge mounts on the firewall are now canted up, which is why I can't get the hood low enough?

 

What Budget 36 says

 

Maybe? I went back and looked at the lower firewall gap, that alone doesn't seem like it should throw the hood off since it's only moved at the bottom. But that in combination with the new front subframe mounts, when the car is on the ground, is that cantilevering the top of the cowl a bit now? Like, is the weight of the car being hung from a new position by the front frame stub adding stress to the top of the cowl that wouldn't have been there before?

I'm equal parts fascinated and mystified by this issue.

 

The weight should all still be along the same vectors. I do know there were shims between the frame and the body that aren't there right now, but assuming they were, that would push the frame down lower and make the gap worse.

The new floor is 4" longer than the other. So while the gap may look small, that firewall could theoretically have been moved that far. Given that there should be no gap.....

I'm open to suggestions, right now I think my best bet is to align all the sheet metal as best as I can, put the hood where it should be, and build new mounts for the hood hinges?

 

WOW…

 

That's what I'd do.

 

I still can't wrap my head around that floor being 4" longer. That should translate into a 4" gap somewhere, and if it was at the bottom of the firewall, the current gap should be a lot longer.

The wheelbase of a 300 is 4" longer than the Newport. If Caprockfabshop is right, and the 300 fenders are longer than the Newport fenders, then some of that difference in wheelbase is in the front fenders and the front subframe, and not the floors. I.E. if the 300 fenders and front subframe are 2" longer than the Newport (just a guess), and if the Newport wheelbase is 122 to the 300's 126, then your new floorpan is 2" longer than the original, not 4. The difference in the length of the front fenders (X) subtracted from the difference in the two wheelbases (4") is the difference in length of the two floorpans (4"-X).

Would it be possible to take out a (4"-X) length strip out of the drivers and passenger foot well floor pan area straight across, then cut forward to the firewall and push the bottom of the firewall back to take up the gap? That would re-align the bottom of the firewall, but my fear would be the difference in floor pan length on the 300 was in the back seat foot well area, and doing what I'm suggesting would mess up the front seat-to-pedal distance.

 

What a story - what I like about it is you have never given up no matter how many fires you have wanted to set to it. Stay with it, get it done, then write the book!

 

Wow, mixing & matching parts... Worse than some '47-'52 Stude stuff.
I think you're on the right track. If the fenders n all align as does the hood, except for the hinges, I'd alter the arms, hinge-stop points &/or the mounts 'till they work correctly.
Marcus...

 

I went out to my parts cars and took some quick measurements, here's pics.
Measuring from the front door jamb, the distance to axle centerline on the short-wheelbase is ~29"


And on the longer wheelbase, it's ~33"

Measuring from this gap:


So really the floor shouldn't make a difference since the interior space is the same whether its a Newport or New Yorker. The longer fenders bolt to the same firewall as the short fenders. Any alignment or gap issues could just be from dissecting a unibody and maybe things got twisted or tweaked in the floor process?

 

This is solid info, now we're getting somewhere. Still not sure where the solution is here, but this is really good info to know. Based off of this, the floorpan from the 300 donor car is the correct length for the Newport body. Something else is throwing the alignment off.

 

Well.

My mom told me she wants a ride in it, as she and my dad dated in the old gal, and to get moving.

Then she told me she has cancer, so hurry up.

Sooo I guess I'll be doing that first thing tomorrow.

 

Very sorry to hear that about your mom. Not the ideal motivator to get back on the project. But I really do hope you can get it on the road in time for her to have some more happy miles in it.

 

If I have this right...
So, the firewall was cut at the toeboard, pushed out 4" to meet w/the new toeboard(which was 4" longer), & the top of the firewall was left in stock position? How far up was the firewall edges cut? If all the way to the hoodline, then this'll change the hood hinge mounting angle. Have to cut the hinge-stop, hinge-plate/arms, or firewall(in order of increasing pain/effort), (or maybe use spacers?) to get the range-of-motion back. You do have the mill n trans out yet, right? I'd set the hood in the correct location, grab cardboard n utensils, crawl in the engine compartment, & figure out the angles/lengths you need. Remove the hinge-springs to make life easier n safer. Cut & tack together, give it a "try-on", adjust, weld, finish, bolt together. 1st attempt(that works) may not be pretty, but those can be redone again from the parts car? Good luck.
Marcus...

 

Can't you unbolt the hood hinges from the body, close the hinges (with the springs removed) lay the hood on the body in the correct position with hinges attached and mark the holes for the new hinge position on the body?

 

Do I need to remove the springs? With the drivetrain out and the hood closed, I can climb in there and unbolt the hinges and then climb out and ideally line it up.

I've read every bit of advice I can find about aligning body panels, so I'm going to start at the rear doors again, and post pics as I go for input.

 

No the hinges may spring open the minute you un bolt them from the body, very dangerous. Remember the spring counter balances the weight of the hood. They have a lot of energy stored in them when stretched like when the hood is closed.

 

And you want the hood to fit with the springs on, as they usually load the hinges to an extent.

 

Aye Aye Aye, I have to come down and take a look, been slammed at work and mom just got home from 6weeks in hospital

 

A buddy came over and we played with the driver's side and the hood. I feel the gaps are decent on the driver's side, and the doors both open with no scraping, and close with authority. We shimmed up one fender and shifted some other bits around. Let me know what ya'll think-I feel it's pretty close. The hood needs to come forward on the driver's side, and the fender on the passenger side needs to move back. Another day this productive might set the old gal to rights.

I also took a video.

 

Looks like you're definitely getting there. And in my experience with this era Mopar, the gaps often weren't all that great from day one. A few more tweaks here and there and it'll be as good as, if not better than, the way the factory made it.

 

That's probably better than the day it rolled out of the factory door. Looks pretty good.
Marcus...

 

That's what a lot of guys don't know/realize is how loose tolerances and gaps were back in the day. And not just Mopar(though several periods they were the worst about it and got the most flack lol). That's part of why many over restored cars look over restored. Years ago I was working part time at a street rod shop in Arkansas. One of the cars was a rust free never wrecked all original low mile 57 t bird getting the hot rod treatment. And the customer wanted gaps perfect. Door gaps up close were irregular from factory so edges of doors were built up with weld and ground to shape. Fenders didn't fully line up with the original headlight bezels so the guy doing the car built the fenders up with fiberglass and sanded to match. Weld and grind method was also done on trunk and hood. And I believe there was some bodywork to make the windshield perfectly match the cowl.

Even on my 53 Bel Air. Since humans drilled the trim holes etc(not machines) at the factory I honestly thought it was an upbadged 210 till I decoded body tag and vin number.

 

Hey, cp;
That's why I wrote things like I did, but intentionally left out the explanation. It wasn't a back-handed compliment. I meant what I wrote.
Marcus...

 

Somehow I missed this. I hope your mom is doing alright.

 

In other news, I now have four working doors that clear everything, and even gaps on both sides. I'd say the sheet metal is as good as it's going to get, barring someone welding up the edges and re-cutting things. I'm not doing it.

Soooo now....if I need to pull it apart again, is there a good way for me to be able to put things back where they were? I have some front end work to do, and putting the drivetrain back in is a bit easier if I pull a few pieces off. Drill holes and pin them?

 

Yes. Just use small multiples of holes in each bracket, like 2 offset abit. You could also mark them so the mark can't be missed, but that might have other issues, like from too-deep-scribe lines, etc. If you're careful(at least for awhile), a different color paint under the brackets would work, but of course, you'd 1st have to shoot each area in a contrasting paint, get all things correctly set, then spray/fogin-in the correct color-match. NBD if you haven't painted yet, but if it's already done.... I suppose you could do a reverse-image-deal, lightly marking w/#2 pencil, then carefully masking around the markings, shoot inside the masking - but you'd have to be rather careful to get it exact, & it's a decent bet that some color-marking will show somewhere. & a soft paint like single stage enamel w/o a hardner wouldn't work, of course. In the past, I've gotten away w/blue tape, or ducttape, placed tightly around n alongside the brackets. Got it pretty close.

Interested in what has worked for others.
Marcus...