1963 Fairlane + 1960 Y-Block

I have a '56 ford 312 Y-block that has been performance built, and a '63 Ford Fairlane. The Fairlane became it's own car (not a trim line) in '62, and when that happened the names 'Fairlane" and "Y-block" parted company.
Any ideas on putting one and one together? I know such a thing has been done in Falcons, but the Falcon's engine compartment is a different beast than the Fairlane's.

And no, I am not interested in using a Ford Small block, that is what everyone does to old fords--and if you think the Y-block is a brick, compare it's power to the Windsor. You need either a 351 or a K-code (or a Boss) to be more than ten horsepower above the 312, and only the best 351s can match the torque output.

 

Falcons used Y-blocks in South America, ...Brazil I think.

 

It's gonna be tight to the spring towers, a Crites T bolt kit will make enough room if it's too tight. Rear/down exit manifolds should work, but the driver side head pipe will be cozy with the steering box, maybe enough that a bit of heat wrap will be in order to not cook the grease. You could avoid that by using the front crossover exhaust tube and a single system, but you probably don't want to do that on a performance 312. Any headers would have to be custom made for sure. Flat-O Specialties makes a nice C4/Y block bellhousing, engine mounts will have to be custom but the Crites FE mounts are probably a good start.

-KK

 

Everything id better with a Y Block in it

 

FYI There was an article in a 1961 hotrod book, one of the small ones on how they did this swap...sure would be different and I like different

Good luck

gaspumpchas

" just got a new car"

"yeah?? did you get a Falcon??"

"no, I got a pretty good deal"

 

I am using a 3.03 tranny (aka the toplading 3), and I know where to get an adapter to make my engine work with it. A problem that raises is that the toploader is right on the edge of being too weak to stand up to the 312, but I am confident that with the superior lubricating mods advance adapters has for the 3.03 it will survive for a while at least.
I hadn't thought of a crossover, though. Not the best for this engine, but it might end up being a necessary evil.
I hadn't thought of using T-Bolt kits (that was a '64 Fairlane with an FE, I believe. Needless to say there wasn't much room left over)

 

I know it is possible, and might even turn out to be unique and cool beyond words, but if you are asking what I think, I think not. By 1963, the 289 was already out, and showing more potential per pound than the Y-block; the 312 was fading toward obscurity.

If you use all circa-1963 parts, your observations about the output might be true. In 2009, if you can't put together a low-budget low-deck Windsor that will run and hide from any Y-block, you aren't very serious.

If you are insistent on putting a big lump in there, use an FE. It is a lot of work, but parts are available, and the motor has lots more potential.

 

I am also looking for a place that sells universal Y-Block mounts, you see those a lot for chevy small blocks and windsors, but the Y-Block is a far cry from a Windsor.

I must be careful, also, about these swaps that are done with "Fairlanes" and Y-Blocks. A lot of people subconsciously link all cars in the sixties with the name Fairlane. I have seen many swaps of a Y-Block into a 1961 Fairlane, but that is just a Fairlane trimmed fullsize Ford, not the Fairlane that eventually became the Torino. No one really was motivated to put a Y-Block into a Fairlane, it can house a windsor out of the factory. I am becoming more and more sure that this has never been done.

 

It's an entertaining thought, but I think AnimalAin is right. But if being different is what you want, I'd be interested to see it happen. BTW, there's a R&P kit available, but not cheap, and not quite pre-'64.

 

This is true, FE's are easier to put into mid '60s Fairlanes. But it is also true that the Y-Block is a small block, the FE is a big block. If we ignore specialized kits, there would be far, far more work in putting an FE into a '63 Fairlane. However, as I have just realized reading the replies, there's no reason I can't use the expanded room from an FE/Fairlane kit to house the Y-Block.

When I compare the Y-Block to the Windsor, I always compare it in stock form. In that sense, in a displacement to power ratio, they are almost equal. And I don't have an FE, I don't have a Windsor. I have a 312. And I have a Chevy 350, and a Volvo B234 (which is a straight six, more power stock than any of these engines, and the smallest externally). For support, I would pick the Chevy (advance adapters will even let me mount it in easily). For power I would go Volvo. For coolness, I would go Y-Block.

 

Thats kinda retarded IMO. I know its your car and all... but a SBF all but puts itself in there for you. You can build 6 SBFs that will outrun the Y-block for half the cost. Everyone does it because it makes sense.

And please don't get me wrong, I LOVE Y-blocks, but this isn't the right application.

 

With a large enough budget and big enough hammer you can do anything.....however.....

Only the most powerful (read - modern forced induction) Y-blocks will even come close to injuring the iron cased toploader transmissions (3 or 4 speed). Your 3.03 box will live happily ever-after behind your 312. Y-blocks are nice motors but they don't make THAT much power unless your spending a large amount of money on heads and forced induction....and if your going that far with the engine you wouldn't be using a 3-speed anyway.

I'm a huge Y-block fan (I've got several) but it makes no sense to put a motor that typically weighs well over 600lbs (610-640 depending on source) in a car designed to haul a 460lb motor....especially since the 289-302 motors make much more power than the Y-block with the same or (typically) less investment. A 400hp Y-block is an expensive proposition. A 400hp small block Ford is a piece of cake. Dollars invested per horsepower shows that the Y-block isn't the smart choice if your on a budget. Also.....you'll need custom motor mounts, your limited on transmission choice, you'll need a hydraulic or custom mechanical clutch linkage (the factory systems in most of the 60' small Fords uses a cast-in and machined boss on the motor to support the Z-bar), the trans tunnel/transition area at the firewall will need to be messaged to clear the Y-block bellhouseing, you'll need new/different springs and swaybar up front to support the extra weight, the shock towers allow very little room even with the dinky 289 let alone a larger motor (yeah, the 351W sorta fits with custom headers but its way tighter than you think in there)....I'm not so sure the Y-block (with manifolds or headers) will fit between the shock towers very well.....get out your measuring tape. Are you starting out with a six cylinder car or V8? Remember the 6 shooters came with 4 lug hub/wheels, very whimpy brakes and a spindly front end/steering system that were barely adequate for the light 6 cyl cars let alone a 289 V8 ......let alone an additional 200lbs from the Y-block over the nose of the car.

Yes, there was (and is) a very good reason this swap was probably never done. The Y-block is too heavy, its too big and it doesn't make enough power to justify all the work/mods and money needed to do the install properly. Would it be cool? Yup. Would it be different? Yup. Is it worth it? My money and time says no.

...just my opinion.

-Bigchief.

 

I seem to remember Hot Rod Magazine installing a Y block in a 63 Fairlane (might have been an early FE though)I know it took a lot of altering when they did it like Tierod through the oil pan etc.Someone here must have the article still it was early 60s

 

IMO, it's a step backwards...Sure, it's 2009 now and there's an argument that in using older engines we are all taking a step backwards- that any one of us could put the newest most modern engine we could find in any hot rod and make it better...but that's not what traditional means (nor what any of us want).

Think of what a 1963 Fairlane "Hot Rod" would have been throughout the years...'63,'65,'68,'72...you get the idea. At no point before the 21st century (because everyone seems to love Y blocks now) would anyone have hot rodded it with a Y block. Ford started giving up on them in '58, and completely gave up on it only a year or two after your Fairlane was made. There was a reason.

Would you put a Model A 4 banger in it? Would you put a Flathead V8 in it? In the end, it's yours to do with what you want.

That being said, I would think it would be much easier in your Fairlane than a Falcon as I'm guessing the Fairlane has much more real estate under the hood.

 

You know, you'd think that falcon would be harder to put Y-block in, wouldn't you? I thought so, but I guess the compartment is shorter but wider (that's the key with the Y-Block).

Well, I'm really not worried about how much power it churns, if I had a good windsor I'd use it, but I don't, I have a good Y-Block.

First, let me say that my entire suspension system is rusted to hell, I can't use it for the 170 that came in the car, much less a windsor (a Y-block would snap it in half). I need better suspension no matter what I do, so that's not a concern. Brakes aren't either. If I was running this car against other hotrods, I would want to switch to disc brakes, but what's the point? These brakes are still good, and they will be better than the brakes all of my other cars have if I replace the pads. Same with the suspension...actually, everything. No matter what I do the car needs a lot of work before it would work even in stock form. The old engine is seized, the only other 170 I could feasibly get is also seized, I would need mods for a Windsor anyway, so why not just do something totally different if I have to do everything myself anyway (I'm a student, prefab is not an option on this budget. The Budget is $1000, I already spent 150 on the car, 300 on the engine, so I only have 550 until I get out of college)?

Anyway, I'm not asking "should I do it?" I'm asking "How should I do it?" because I already know the answer to the first question, and (for me anyway) it's yes.

 

Also, the bellhousing on later Y-blocks in not a concern, I have a special one that mates to the toploader which came in the fairlane, and clears fine. I don't need to worry about length in any way, the Y-Block is shorter than windsor.

 

Your already over budget.

The car has to be safe first. Go to the various Fairlane based sites and do some research on brake and suspension upgrades, especially in regard to V8 swaps/five lug swaps. Your car is a six cylinder car.....4 lug hubs, weak brakes and much smaller steering components than the already small V8 parts. Its widely accepted that the brakes on the early six cylinder cars (Fairlane/Falcon/Mustang) were barely adequate back when the cars were new. Now that your adding weight to the front AND your out on today's highways with modern cars that stop much, MUCH better than your car when it was new it is imperative that you update the brakes. The rub is that none of the six cylinder brake/hub/steering components on your car right now interchange with any of the V8 parts on the Fairlane/Comets. This means that everything attached to the car has to come off and be replaced with bigger/better V8 parts. I've done this swap a couple of times, you are not in for a cheap and easy ride at all going this direction on the Fairlane/Comet. If you really want that Y-block in that car you should save up your money and buy a "hub to hub" Mustang II kit for the car and be done with the brakes, suspension, steering and get all the room you'll need for the Y-block all in one shot. The bare crossmembers run about $400-450, the complete hub to hub kits run about $1800. You'll have the better part of that into a suspension/steering/brake rebuild-V8 parts swap/upgrade anyway. You'll need an 8" or 9" rear in the car to handle the Y-block's torque....so if its got the whimpy rearend in it you'll be swapping that out as well.....if there's an 8" rear in the car you'll at least be swapping out the axles and brakes on that end too.

See where your going with this?

Honestly? Your time and money is MUCH better spent on selling the Y-block and finding a running 200 cube six (instead of using the weak kneed - shaker/weazer 170) and rebuilding the stock six cylinder brakes and suspension that are already on the car. This is easier, cheaper and (in some folks eyes) cooler than the Y-block. Your very limited on funds and your in college so I'm assuming your limited on time as well...after being in/around the restoration business for many years and seeing these kinds of projects in the hands of folks that are budget/time constrained I can bet money that your WAY more apt to complete the 200 cube swap and basic/stock brake-suspension rebuild than you are dealing with the large costs and complexities of installing the Y-block and a full V8 brake/steering/suspension swap (and all the many periferals mentioned above/previous posts) into a unibody car. The 200 six is way more common than the 170 so finding them should be a little easier and all the parts you need for the frontend and brakes are easily available and affordable through your local NAPA or Fairlane restoration house.

...or sell the Fairlane and grab something more Y-block friendly.

-Bigchief.

 

Let this be known that there is no vehicle registration required in rural alaska, and no emissions required at all. I must put my car on a boat for 600 dollars to get to a stretch of road with a speed limit over 45.

 

That's like a 409 in a Chevelle.

 

1. The engine bays of a 1964 Falcon, Fairlane, Comet and a Mustang are so close to being the same that it is not even worth mentioning.

2. I put a 1964 Comet, Crites T'Bolt kit in a 1965 Mustang. It fit perfectly except for the under pan crossmember which I had to lengthen 2". It gave me 3" more in bay width and allowed a 460 to be installed. You have to run skinnies with a huge neg. offset to clear the fender lip.

3. You might have to dimple the firewall for the rear-most head.

4. You need a front sump pan.

It will need some 1955-6-7 Thunderbird valve covers for coolness.

 

.....all the more reason to keep it cheap and simple.

 

You're thinking of the Falcon. The '62-'65 Fairlanes had five lug hubs and the same steering regardless of engine.

And since he already has what the V8 cars have, Granada disc brakes with Corvair inner tie rods as the outer tie rods (common Fairlane swap) will go on.

Sounds like you've done this to the Falcon/Comet, in which case you are right.

Doesn't sound like he can swing an extra 15 hun plus the fab and down time, but the last two are a supposition. And M-II's are not exactly what you would call a HAMB trad type mod, though they work very nicely.

About half of that for a stock rebuild and Granada swap with junkyard and craigslist parts.

It's already got an 8" in it, and if it was a 170/3spd, it probably has 3.50 gears. The stock axles will hold up to the Y block fine if he doesn't dump the clutch at every light.

-KK

 

It is a kooky swap but probably wouldn't be that hard. I doubt the towers need cutting, if anything the rib in the upper center can be notched. The exhaust manifolds sweep upward over the narrowest part of the towers. Oil pump and filter location and exhaust manifold exit vs steering box are the things i'd be concerned about. Mounts can be made up by using YBlock or early FE insulators and making the frame brackets. The Crites FE mounts may work.

I've seen a 409 Camaro ! It had Washington plates that say "BIFF".

 

289 fits, but a 351W is tight. The FE is tighter, and requires mods like a Crite's kit. This diagram I picked up somewhere shows sizes. That said, I also have pics of a Fairlane with a Modular in it, so with the right mods, anything can fit, lol. Either way, IMO, you'll be fabbing your own mounts. I can't say how much different a Y-block is from an FE, but AFAIK, they're close.

 

Flying Jester I appreciate your dedication to making that Y-block work in there. I had a 1963 Ford Fairlane with the 200. I suggest you find one of those and hop it up, drop it in, and let it burn hardcore. You would have plenty of coolness by having a hopped up six.

Hell one of my buddies had a 200 that was hopped up and shoke oil of V8s consistently.

Everyone is being reasonable in advising you not to do it. I found that I prefer finding the odd-ball engines. I had a 200 now I am running with and odd-fire V6.

You dont need to race it, you just need to cruise it. A 200 can cruise just as well as a Y-block.

 

I appreciate that in most cases you are all right, that there is no reason to do this swap--it's not exactly a bad idea, it's just that there are better alternatives. In most cases.
What most people suggest is very costly in money rather than time for me. What do you do if you want a replacement engine? Likely scour salvage yards, look on craigslist (or another web site), or check you classifieds. I feel I must explain my position more clearly.

Imagine I found a good 260 in Seattle (this is not hypothetical, this is a true story, except I didn't buy the engine). What would it cost? I thought 500 was not a bad price, it wasn't anything special but it ran. So, what would you do? Likely, you would go have a look to see if it was a good engine. What would that cost me? over 600, both ways. So lets assume I trusted the seller, and didn't check it out. How much would shipping be?

Well, from seattle to ketchikan I need someone to put it on a ferry, you can't fly engines to ketchikan. That means I have to fly to seattle, 300 bucks. So I ride the ferry with my engine. That's 200 dollars. Then I have to take it from the dock to the airport, which is on a different island than the dock, so you have to ride that ferry. So I need to rent a car to do that. So there's 50 dollars to move the engine a half a mile. Then I have to get space in a cargo plane, that's 300 dollars to juneau. Well, no cargo planes will carry it to the last town, my secret base. Let it be said, I then have to pay 500 dollars to put it on the landing craft, and then pay 150 dollars to get back to my home.

So, now I have to take a week off, and I have spent 1700 dollars to get an engine that is not really very desirable. I would only ever do this is somehow I found my car's long lost numders matching 289 K-Code (and that ain't gonna happen, it came with a 170 from the factory) And, now I still have to buy the parts to get it to mount in my car, and I need a transmission to go with it. There is an inherent 1200+ dollar charge in getting heavy materials to anywhere in rural Alaska.

And if you think there is just some stock engine for the fairlane sitting in my town, you must understand that there simply isn't. There is only one other fairlane in my town, the second oldest car (not truck) after my own, a '64. And the engine is totally fubar, he was going to mod up an FE he had.

The alternative, is to spend 300 dollars on the Y-Block and 100 on the adapter to make it fit the stock tranny. It doesn't fit right away, but that's a matter of metal working, which consumes time. I have some time. I don't have a lot of money.

But again, I'm not saying "should i do it". I am asking "How should I do it?"

And thanks for the idea of using a T-Bolt kit to free up some space, it's so perfect I feel kind of foolish for not thinking of it.

 

One more thing: The '63 and '64 Fairlanes I've seen with the 170 also had the little 2.77 "peanut" 3 speed that was used in the Falcon, the one with the non-synchro 1rst gear. If you have this trans, it will most definitely not stand up behind the Y block, and the input shaft size and bolt pattern ensure that it wouldn't bolt up anyway, as the adaptors are for the bigger transmissions. Make sure you don't have this trans, and if you do, make plans to get a toploader 3.03 3 speed or 4 speed for the project.

-KK

 

I'm going to post this diagram I've made, completely to scale. The only exception is that I don't have a carb on the Y Block, the height ends up just above the W's top, all of this with no air filter.
I know I don't have to convince folks of this, it shows the Y close to the windsor and just smaller than the FE, like we know, but no one else seems to have anything like this on the internet.

Thanks to tim@yblockguy.com for making this happen, and I also butchered that diagram that was posted before. Coincidentally, I can verify that the first diagram was also a totally accurate comparisons.

 

This is true, but also is true that you could buy the 303 in an I6 car if you wanted. It wasn't done very often, but that's how mine came to be. Gotta love that synchro first gear!

 

This is actually something that's really interesting that I found out: The Y-Block is the exact same length as the Windsor. If I kept the stock transmission this might still be a problem, but I plan on using a 303 toploading 3-speed, this is a stock transmission for Fairlanes. So, the engine will sit in the same front-rear zone as the stock V8s.