Projects 1964 98 2 dr Coupe w/TH400 upgrade project

Hey Fellas, Have posted some info, about my latest project awhile back. Thought I would start a fresh thread, since the TH400 end of things is coming together.

As stated earlier, this car was found left for dead, in the back of a local tow yard. My BFF Nads, rescued it for me. Sheesh! Can't seem to get away from these "64" Oldsmobile's. Maybe the [COLOR=blue !important][COLOR=blue !important]GM[/COLOR][/COLOR] Gods trying to tell me something.

With a little TLC, was able to get the engine to come to life, although the Slim Jim had no forward or Reverse.
(most likely the reason it was sitting in that tow [COLOR=blue !important][COLOR=blue !important]yard[/COLOR][/COLOR].)
Since this is my 6th one of these cars, I am fully over that slush-box trans, and have taken the plunge with Ross Racing, to convert it to a more "modern" TH400.
Yes, a 700R4, would make it SO much better, but a close [COLOR=blue !important][COLOR=blue !important]friend[/COLOR][/COLOR] (Ramblur)gave me a perfectly good Th400, from a '71 Cadillac. Tony assured me the extended tail shaft would be fine, and no additional cross member, would be needed.
[COLOR=blue !important][COLOR=blue !important]Trans[/COLOR][/COLOR] needed to be fully disassembled, prior to shipping. Tony/Ross Racing Shaves off the existing bell-housing and modifies the case to accept their adapter.
http://rossracingengines.com/p/225/o...utomatic-sc-6/
3 weeks later, stoked to get it back, this week and begin re-assembly. No real need to make any internal upgrades or mods. All clutch packs and bushings looked like new money. Car is going to built for cruising Low n Slow, and a 1971 Cadillac [COLOR=blue !important][COLOR=blue !important]DeVille[/COLOR][/COLOR] with it's 500ci v-8 is more of a tank than my 98. I fabbed up a reasonable facsimile of a GM factory trans mounting [COLOR=blue !important][COLOR=blue !important]bracket[/COLOR][/COLOR], to fit my engine stand. This is almost critical to a proper and easy teardown and rebuild. Factory GM bracket actually mounted on work bench, but doing this at work and don't think the city would appreciate me drilling big holes in their property. Bad enuff, I'm doing this at work...right??? shhhh!
OK, will keep y'all posted as progress continues.

JT

p.s. this thread also exists at www.classicoldsmobile.com

 

Additional plans call for yanking the motor to freshen up the engine bay and do a little detail work to the old Rocket 394. Experience tells me, that despite the engine sounding tight and no smoke, timing chain may be worn as well as cam shaft. I have the use of a shop with a killer 2ton overhead electric crane. So, why not yank the whole package and do it right. As a professional mechanic, I spend so much time making "other" people's cars looking good...now it's my turn.

Also in the works, is a complete transformation of the interior. A broken drivers window, allowed wild animals(Tasmanian Devil???) and mother nature to ruin the seats and upholstery. Found a parts car on e-bay and was fortunate enough to get the owner to part with the complete interior. Although black not light green, beggars can't be choosers.

 

"new" interior. Seller has agree'd to meet me in Charlotte, at the Spring Spectacular, to deliver to whole enchilada.

WTF??? cannot seem to upload any more pictures!

pop up states:
"Your submission could not be processed because a security token was missing.

If this occurred unexpectedly, please inform the administrator and describe the action you performed before you received this error."

 

No, trans is a long tail shaft example. Unsure of rear axle ratio. It is not an A/C car, which had a little steeper gear. (3.64?)

Truth be told had not one, but TWO OD trans' a few years ago. (700R4 and TH200 OD) Sold them both to raise capitol for a 7 day Caribbean cruise.

JT

 

Today was like Christmas. Been watching loading dock, across the parking lot, all week patiently waiting. Ross Racing bell housing adapter had ALL the guys drooling. The pups seemed to like the red anodized flywheel. I think they thought it was a pizza.

JT

 

Despite the wet and rainy conditions outside...Inside Paragon Customs, was nice and dry. Perfect day to yank my engine. Thanks Eric!!!
Fairly sure this heap has been sitting since like 2004. That's what tag sticker AND license bureau say. I plan on a minor under hood detail job and light engine freshening. (assorted gaskets and timing chain/gear set)
Hope the cam looks OK, engine did run fairly well, before I pulled it out.

BTW...this Slim Jim trans is free to anyone whom wants it. Slips in F and R.Going to Charlotte Motorfest Friday. Could drag it up there. Will steam clean, at work, on Monday irregaurdless.

JT

 

A little more progress today. Brought engine home and started tearing into this 50 yr old time capsule. Not too bad, for its age. Minimal cam wear and timing chain free play. As stated earlier, it did run fairly well and no smoke to speak of. Would be stupid not to replace valve stem seals, along with other minor wear items. Struggling with weather or not to pull the cylinder heads, Trying to not get carried away.

"J" letter stamp, on cylinder head, designate/verify 3400, 3500 and 3800 series engine. (Dynamic 88, Super 88 and 98 respectfully)
10.25:1 comp ratio 4-Bbl

JT

 

Oops, forgot to include the pictures.

 

Seems more often than not, but an ugly slimey, greasy engine turns out to be tip top inside. Also happy to find out, have almost ALL the gaskets I need to re-seal the whole engine block, including a rubber rear main oil seal. Crossing my fingers, cylinder heads and valves are in decent shape.
Do not want to cut corners, but at the same time do not want to break the bank.

JT

 

Patiently awaiting cylinder heads, from local machine shop. In the mean time, doing everything I can, on the cheap, to make some progress.
With a gallon of Purple degreaser, pressure washer, various brushes and lots of elbow grease, managed to get engine bay cleaned.

Q:Have done allot of checking around, for proper GM chassis and firewall black. Found some at my local paint supplier, from Dupont and Eastwood offers a few different levels of this type of paint. Would really like to get it as close to factory as possible. Anybody any direct experience with these paints?? Concerned about resistance to grease oils and brake fluid. Plan on spraying with HVLP cup type gun.
JT

 

I yanked the slim jim after I did a performance rebuild. The slim Jim is a dog. I put in the TH 400 and it's a whole new car! The think is a beast. Did a shift kit and a trans cooler and couldn't be happier. I chirp the tire from 1st to 2nd as often as I can. Always puts a smile on my face! Mine has the 389. All the torque my tire can handle. Next is posi and it's sooooo expensive for that old gasser rear end.


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'64 Grand Prix'x are very cool. Same basic bodystyle as a Starfire, with the curved back window. (I happen to have an extra one) The trans swap must have really changed the way it performs. Can't wait to get my 98 on the road and experience all 345hp.
The Olds project has kind of stalled, as of late. Money I had set aside, to get cylinder heads finished, was diverted to my dog's medical bills. Doing my best to work on every aspect I can, that does not require large sums of cash. Cleaning, prepping and painting are cheap.
Recently started working on a '56 Olds for a customer, so hoping that money can be used to finish my engine.
JT

 

Well, looks like several months have passed, since my last post. Which translates, into, I have not worked on this engine since then. Like so many others, money is in short supply, and can only do so much, especially when family matters take all your cash.
Decided to just focus on the short block, which will not cost too much to complete. Thought I could sneak the old rope seal, from under the crank, but no chance. I actually used to have a tool, called the "Sneaky Pete" rear main seal remover/installer. Worked great on all the Olds 350 Diesel engine I used to specialize in. Anyway, decided to just take my time and remove crank and do it the right way. This ensured, that all the bearings were torqued correctly, anyways. Damn, that last main cap is tightened to 160lb ft. !!
Old rope seals are ok, but would rather swap to rubber lip seal. that is what Best Gasket includes, in all their kids nowadays.

These bottom ends are so flippin' HD, no wonder they could handle blowers with no problem. Mains are 2.9993" in dia. Forge steel crank...standard, no extra charge!

 

After 30+ years of playing around with these 394's, I have learned a few tricks. So, tonight was test fitting the new timing chain. Decided to buy a $25 one from Kanter, just to test how close the cam timing is. if WAY off, then will have to get the adjustable kit from Ross Racing. Trying to save my money for new SS valves and springs.
Well upon close inspection, of camshaft, noticed that it is the low compression 2bbl example. Tip of cam designates whether a 2bbl, 4bbl 10:25-1 or 4bbl 10:5-1 hi compression version. Curses!!! Whoever built this motor last go around cheaped out on the cam. Was so excited, when I opened it up to see the all the cam lobes were in good condition.

This page is in the factory Oldsmobile service manual. Ran into the exact problem, in reverse, 30yrs ago, when rebuilding the 2bbl engine in my '64 Dynamic 88. Starfire cam WILL NOT work. Different spacing in front flange.

 

Now I am wondering about the pistons?? This will be a cruiser, not any kind of race car, so not TOO concerned, but would be nice to duplicate the power that the 98 came with, from the factory. Please excuse the bad pictures. Hope it's clear enough to get an opinion on which compression ratio these are.

 

Found these numbers on back of camshaft
F211, 209, 3
???

 

Are aftermarket performance cams for the 394 hard to find ? If not, why not save up for a little better cam that's probably better than the factory Starfire cam.

 

Put an Isky cam in a 60 Olds 371 (2 bbl) years ago and don't recall having the camshaft flange problem. I am going through the same exercise now and want to know what I have. I have a camshaft already out and will look at that this weekend. I would think the 59-60 371 engines would be the same as the 59-64 394s, but looks like it isn't. I have the shop manuals and will look at them.

 

Just spent some time, with a degree wheel checking cam. Ran the numbers using .010" before and after lobe centerline and .050". Came up with 118 and 125.5 respectfully. Lift is .335" Getting late going to redo tomorrow using a better dial indicator.
When I built a 1960 394, a few years back, 115 was my number. Was looking for 111, according to Old Man Ross. So went ahead and got the custom chain set and advanced the cam 4 degrees to compensate. That motor runs very strong! Quite sure it had the mid grade compression ratio pistons. Not so lucky with this one. Once again, whoever built this went the cheap route and stuck low compression pistons in it.

 

Andamo, I am WAY over budget on this whole project. As I said earlier, the damn engine ran good, before I yanked it out. Just wanted to be anal and look at what was inside(big disappointment) and detail and paint everything.
Saving up for the new valves and springs is gonna be a stretch as it is. Still have an extensive laundry list, like radiator, belts, hoses, Lokar TH400 dipstick and custom shift linkage, shorten and balance driveshaft, dual master cylinder upgrade, blah blah blah. Not to mention, after spending $1500 for a new/used complete interior...still need to buy fabric at $90yd and pay Kelly's Upholstry. Let's not even get into the cost of a custom paint job. Holy Smokes!!
How in the hell, do these guys do it???? Just watched coverage of the Ventura Nationals and was blown away at the caliber of those builds.
Trust me, not giving up. Will be super cool when done. Silver with black vinyl top and black interior.
JT
My inspiration: (this is what my Olds looked like when it rolled off the assembly line)

 

This is just my opinion but why silver with a black top ? Every third car going down the road now-a-days is friggin' silver. It's a special car, paint it special and don't fall lockstep in with the rest of the masses.

 

Would love to have retained the factory Fern Mist color combo, not really possible.(used to have a mint condition '64 98 4dr hdtp in that color) After much thought I have several reasons for considering silver. First off, The interior of this car was completely trashed by weather and animals So had to find a new one, which is all black. IMHO black would not lend itself well to a light green exterior. Granted, painting all the jams and underside of trunk is a hassle but...??? Lastly, it was a factory color option(as was a vinyl top) and after seeing the 2 silver arrows, at the Amelia Island Concours', thought that color looked very regal.

 

Little by little. Went ahead and just bolted up the chain and gears. It is what it is, at this point. Managed to get front cover and oil pan bolted on and squirt the hole thing with a coat of etch primer. Big thanks to EGGE machine for the swift delivery of my gaskets.
Also made necessary mods to engine block, for flywheel clearance. Only the left side needs significant slicing and dicing. Lower cover, does not need any grinding, but it is a 1956? or older casting to properly relocate starter.

 

New long reach dial indicator came in the mail today. Poring rain outside, so could not resist checking the cam, one last time. NOT a big fan of these small diameter degree wheels, but it's all I got. After verifying TDC and lobe centerline, I checked the cam overlap at .010" before and after.
94 and 134 degrees respectfully, added together and divided in half equals 114 degrees. Still looking at 111 as a reference number, From Mr. Ross Sr., I figure I am close enough.
Rechecked intake valve lift, as well. .240 x 1.6 rocker arm ratio =.384" ???

JT

 

We should have done that after we yanked the engine out of "Sophie". Why didn't we? Hmmm.

 

Well, like so many others, building these cars can take a long time...and a big wad of cash. Finally made some progress, this weekend. Was able to get engine bay painted, with the help of a friend. Machine shop says cylinder heads are done, so maybe drop it in the chassis in a few weeks??

 

Two thumbs up, to Dennis at Auto Machine and Parts, for doing a killer job on my 394 cylinder heads.And to Ross Racing, for the S/S valves and springs. Struggled back and forth about the added expense of hardened exhaust seats.($200clams) After a chat withGoatroper decided, better to eat some baloney and do them right. It's best in the long run.

 

Another big thanks to my Brother Nads, for pulling the trigger, on painting all my engine accessories.
Painting ANYTHING, outside, in Floriduh, not the greatest idea. So much moisture and sand flying all over. Oh well.

 

Just waiting on water pump, from Ross, and a few other little details, before I can paint it and drop it in. Did a little bit of research and found out, that the closest silver to factory, for valve covers and air cleaner, is "argent silver" was actually the same color used for all GM rally wheels. Local paint shop hooked me up, with a pint. red and black as well. Spent the extra dough to buy quality paints for this one. My rattle can days are over.(new 2 part rattle cans available, for like $23)

 

A little more progress. Was able to paint the transmission and a few other misc. parts. As much as I want to drop the engine in, trying to take my time and do it right.
p.s. picture of '69 GS400 Stage 1 4 spd, snuck in, with the others. Belongs to Ramblur. Had the pleasure of driving it, last Sunday morning. WOW