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Event Coverage 2017 Engine Masters Challenge

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by jimmy six, Oct 4, 2017.

  1. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 16,998

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You can follow this years challenge at www.hotrod.com/events . This year has only 2 classes traditional muscle and vintage which must use iron only heads. The first days results show how much in traditional the early Chrysler could lead the pack. Not surprising on who it is if you followed Jr. Fuel in the 60's.
    Nothing yet on Vintage engines but I'm glad to see aftermarket aluminum heads eliminated from that class this year. JD
     
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  2. 402BOSSMAN
    Joined: Jul 26, 2015
    Posts: 499

    402BOSSMAN
    Member

    It was a fun time. I built the Induction for the Hemi and partnered with Gene Adams to compete. The unique thing about it is the stacks change length during the dyno pulls. We were able to manipulate the power curve in a way never seen before (would stay at peak torque for 1200-1500 RPM - flat as Kansas). This was the first ever attempt to do it at the Engine Masters Challenge but the technology has been tried in many forms of motorsports and can be foung on certain Ferrari's and European Sport Bikes.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  3. 402BOSSMAN
    Joined: Jul 26, 2015
    Posts: 499

    402BOSSMAN
    Member

    This was when I was testing the actuator function and for binding. I used a cordless drill battery for power.
     
  4. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 13,505

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    Now that some crazy stuff there.
     
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  5. 402BOSSMAN
    Joined: Jul 26, 2015
    Posts: 499

    402BOSSMAN
    Member

    Always have to think outside of the box. What it takes to stay competitive. This was my second Runner Up finish in the contest. Also got an award for Best Appearing Engine.
     
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  6. Montana1
    Joined: Jan 1, 2015
    Posts: 2,140

    Montana1
    Member

    I've seen this back in the day in go-karts on the exhaust side. They called them "slippy pipes". They were actuated by a hand lever and shortened the pipe length after coming out of the corners for a top end surge. Now they are outlawed... :(

    https://karting.4cycle.com/showthread.php?22212-Slippy-Pipes-Why-Not
     
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  7. 402BOSSMAN
    Joined: Jul 26, 2015
    Posts: 499

    402BOSSMAN
    Member

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  8. Just Gary
    Joined: Oct 9, 2002
    Posts: 5,792

    Just Gary
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Cool!
    Were the Hemi's headers equal length? how long? What diameter?
    Thanks, Gary
     
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  9. 402bossmam, I have a question on early hemi exhaust ports and headed design. It bugs the***** out of me. That is why does every builder design in a torturous exit got the exhaust?

    image.jpeg

    Ok, the hemi exhaust port shape is orientated and points and flows this way direction.
    image.jpeg

    Except for only 2 sets, Every set of headers I've ever seen for the hemi start off like this. With a flange and square take offs.
    The black line is the angle of the steel primary pipe and port direction shown earlier.
    The gasses dead head into a 45* immediately at the header flange headed down, then another immediate 45 headed up and another immediate 45 to get almost right back to the line of the port. See how the pvc pipe is almost to the black line?
    image.jpeg

    Here's close to the proper orientation.

    image.jpeg

    image.png

    Right off the head The headers end up like this. image.jpeg

    So the old High and mighty gasser and my set are the only 2 sets that try to follow the ports direction.
    image.jpeg
    image.jpeg
    image.jpeg


    Even the nitro zoomies start off square
    image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 2, 2017
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  10. belair
    Joined: Jul 10, 2006
    Posts: 9,036

    belair
    Member

    Cool.
    but we need audio of these things singing their songs.
     
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  11. 402BOSSMAN
    Joined: Jul 26, 2015
    Posts: 499

    402BOSSMAN
    Member

    Equal Length - 1-7/8" Stepped to 2" Built by Andrew Calkins in California.
    Good question, actually I milled the flanges at the same exit angle of the ports based on my CNC Program for them. They weren't built for a particular chassis so Andrew built what would work best since it was a clean slate.
     
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  12. 402BOSSMAN
    Joined: Jul 26, 2015
    Posts: 499

    402BOSSMAN
    Member

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  13. belair
    Joined: Jul 10, 2006
    Posts: 9,036

    belair
    Member

    That was great. Those stacks are fun to watch.
     
  14. 402BOSSMAN
    Joined: Jul 26, 2015
    Posts: 499

    402BOSSMAN
    Member

    It was talk on the UNOH Campus for a few days. Everyone wanted to know how it worked including Kaase. We got to discuss our builds to each other. I have lots of respect for him.
     
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  15. FrozenMerc
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 3,403

    FrozenMerc
    Member

    That is high praise from Kaase after what he did to that MEL to get the Vintage class win.

    "Head Gaskets"
    [​IMG]

    Modified Heads with the combustion face dropped down into the "Head Gaskets" to get a better turn and much improved flow through the original heads. Per the rules you couldn't raise the port floor. They didn't say anything about dropping the combustion face.
    [​IMG]

    More photos and descriptions.
    http://www.hotrod.com/articles/phot...kaase-emc-2017-mel-engine-masters-challenge-j
     
  16. belair
    Joined: Jul 10, 2006
    Posts: 9,036

    belair
    Member

    Smokey would be proud^^^
     
  17. Gearhead Graphics
    Joined: Oct 4, 2008
    Posts: 3,888

    Gearhead Graphics
    Member
    from Denver Co

    All that crazy technical work and the electrical is crimp connectors without even shrink tubing. Petty I know, but youd think they'd put the same detail to wiring as to internals
     
  18. Them stacks are cool as can be!
     
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  19. 402BOSSMAN
    Joined: Jul 26, 2015
    Posts: 499

    402BOSSMAN
    Member

    Considering the time frame Andrew Peterson had to work with I'm amazed he met the deadline! He had maybe a week to wire this from scratch while working another job. I'm just happy we made it to the event. The harness purpose was meant just for this event, a new one would need made to work in a car.
     
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  20. 402BOSSMAN
    Joined: Jul 26, 2015
    Posts: 499

    402BOSSMAN
    Member

    Kaase told me the "valve seat" as he would call it has a .010 press fit into a 1/4" deep counter bore that was cut into the original valve seat area. Was a big hunk of round Ampco 45 bar stock he bought off of Ebay and made those pucks out of. He also used a setscrew on the side to help lock it together just in the offbeat chance it may rotate. The bronze ring is what seals the cylinder compression. Pretty amazing, said he learned of it working for Dyno Don many years ago on a Experimental Ford head that was brought in.
     
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  21. FrozenMerc
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 3,403

    FrozenMerc
    Member

    To the engineer in me, What Kaase did is amazing. But to the purist, it takes away from the essence of an MEL, and falls into the same category of what he did to that Y-Block two years ago. Ultimately that MEL is closer to a 460 then an MEL. Though, I am well aware that it would have been damn near impossible to get a set of iron MEL heads to flow enough air to make the 770 hp that was required for the win.
     
  22. 402BOSSMAN
    Joined: Jul 26, 2015
    Posts: 499

    402BOSSMAN
    Member

    I agree 100% FrozenMerc but that is EMC for you. I'm just as guilty as my last induction in 2010-2012 eventually got Outlawed! The engineering behind his was pretty amazing. I read someone from ECR (Earnhardt Childress Racing) and Billy Godbold of Comp Cams helped with design input? Not sure if that is accurate info but all hands on deck! In his exit interview after his session he stated if he hadn't of done this than the Hemi would have won. Jon spent some time with me explaining how it all worked and what he battled with. It is an amazing piece and he had far more time to work on it then us. I had 21 days available for the Induction side (heads, intake, and moving stacks) and had 276 hours invested into it (not counting the years and months pondering the idea). We had 16 dyno pulls testing on ours and simply ran out of time. We were lucky to even get it to the event with the issues we had with parts. Another thing to note about the MEL is they had a Solid Roller cam core which I'm told is rare. They also had issues with the valvetrain, Jon had some extra rockers shipped to the event in case one was to fail.
     
  23. FrozenMerc
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 3,403

    FrozenMerc
    Member

    Great info. I didn't want to take anything away from your Hemi. That is a killer piece for sure, and the use of adjustable stacks to keep the torque up for longer in the rpm band was genius. It is always crazy what people come up with to take advantage of the rules. What's next, variable compression ratio?
     
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  24. Montana1
    Joined: Jan 1, 2015
    Posts: 2,140

    Montana1
    Member

    Already been done!
    Everything us old guys think of now days has already been done. :eek:
    Nothing new under the sun... ;)

     
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  25. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 4,122

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Well done! Congratulations
     
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  26. stillrunners
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 10,579

    stillrunners
    Member
    from dallas

    wow....youse guys....mean stuff fer sure.....like.......
     

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