wrapping up the built 250/muncie 4spd install in my 35 chevy coupe and having starter fitment problems. Were the 6s originally equipped with a 153 tooth flywheel or something? Combination right now is 68 model block, 621 bell, 168 tooth fly and nothing fits. original 6 starter is supposed to locate lower than the v8 starters (or so it appears) and the bell is in the way. v8/stick starter with bolts straight across from each other fits, but hole spacing is narrower than the holes in the block. Flywheel, clutch, etc... was free- hate the thought of shelling out for a new 153t flywheel, clutch, etc... and ripping it all back apart- again. Anyone tried drilling new mounting holes in the block? Plenty of room and material for straight across OR staggered pattern starters.
all the sixes i've dealt with had the cast iron truck bellhousing, with the starter mouted on the bellhousing, for the 168 tooth flywheel. I've never seen the 621 bellhousing on a with a 168 tooth flywheel. what I have seen for cars, was the 153 tooth flywheel, and the 403 bellhousing.
Thanks Eric. Anyone else? Come on, I know I'm not the first one to stab a 4 speed behind an inliner.......
I had an M21 behind a 194 in my 48 with the cast iron truck bellhousing at one time with the 168 tooth flywheel and the starter that bolts to the bellhousing. I've run the full syncro Saginaw 3 speed behind the 250 that is now in my truck with the cast iron bellhousing and starter that bolts to the bellhousing since 1989 when I stuck it in in a three week thrash from a bare frame to driving to a car show. Unless the engine came from a truck I don't think it was drilled for an offset bolt pattern for the 168 tooth flywheel.
is the block drilled for a starter or not? it not, then you either get it drilled, or use a 60's truck bellhousing that mounts the starter. if it is, which pattern is it drilled for, straight across or staggered (or both)? that will determine which starter and flywheel you can use.
I "thought" the 194-215-230-250-292 sixes all had both starter patterns drilled in the block (?). Maybe one of the aftermarket, hi-torque, mini starters, with multiple starter bolt patterns and the ability to "clock" the starter, would work for you. Not sure if the bellhousing you have was intended for use with the 14 inch, 168 tooth flywheel/flexplate; it may not have the proper clearance for the staggered mount starter. I personally like the cast iron bellhousings, with the open bottom for clutch work, and the 3 bolt, bellhousing mounted starters. Butch/56sedandelivery.
The block is drilled for straight across pattern starter, but it is a wider pattern than a v8 starter. I scrounged a dual pattern, cast iron nosecone starter that was on pops' 70 big block elky- it fits the bellhousing and the outside bolt lines up. Theres plenty of meat to just tap another hole in the block for a staggered pattern- this should be fine, right? thanks for the help, fellas.
correction: the block pattern is NOT wider- this goofy, dual pattern starter is narrower for some reason. After more digging, found that I need a cast iron nosecone, apparently that is all that fits the 621 bell with a 168T wheel. There is no straight across pattern, cast iron nose starter made- they are all staggered. Time to fire up the drill, unless you guys know something I dont, ha. thanks again for the help!
I believe but I am not 100% sure some of those aftermarket mini starters use the straight across pattern for both, as you have found out Chevy used the staggered pattern for the large diameter and straight across for small diameter.See if you can borrow one to try but I know some have two sets of holes next to each other and I believe that is the reason.I know I have installed them just never paid attention.
I have only seen the cast iron nosecone starter you are referencing for big block stick cars, and it is pricey
I also like the truck bells & clutches. It takes the whole starter to block mounting out of the equation. Otherwise I've always tried to get engines that come with a starter and flywheel/ flex plate. Bob
I have a bell housing that came off a '67 C10 250 that had a three speed Saginaw in it. If interested shoot me a PM.
If you are determined to use the 168 tooth flywheel and 621 bell, then you will need to drill and tap the other hole. Otherwise, a 153 tooth flywheel and 403 bell are plenty good enough for a 250.
Thanks for the info fellas, and the bellhousing offer, Oldsman. Its all painted up and in there now, and i have an old cast iron nose big block starter that fits. Guess at this point its easiest to stab another hole in the block and go.
I think you will find in the long run that it will be a hell of a lot less frustrating to just pull it back out, swap bellhousings and stick it back in and be done with it. It's no where near as easy as it sounds to drill that offset hole and get it right on the money so that the pinion hits the ring gear perfectly straight. Why waste a couple of hours piddling around trying to drill a hole straight while laying on your back when you can clean the bellhousing up, lift the engine and trans out and drop the trans off, swap bellhousings and have it back together in an hour or less if the nose isn't on the car yet?
Or just find a small flywheel and the you wont have to repaint a bellhousing. Well I guess you would have to get another clutch set up but it would be lighter and make for picking up the revs better .
The Jalopy Journal
