289 Ford... and I'm an idiot

I think the only flexplate that would fit, but yet incorrect, would be due to balance. This would cause a bad vibration, but would not cause a knock.

 

Before you try too much stuff, go out and check the header bolts, I have personally twice seen a "knock" fixed by tightening the header bolts, it was actually an exhaust leak. The first one I would have sworn was a rod knock. My brother called me once a while later and told me his SBC had started knocking and I told him to try the header bolt thing. He called me just few minutes later and thanked the heck out of me. It may not be the answer this time but I ALWAYS check the header bolts now on an engine knock.

 

Once I get the motivation to proceed I'll check this out. I don't believe this to be the problem as I have been around leaking headers in the past and the noise was not so metallic and generally awful. But it never hurts to check. Hopefully I will be able to get back at it in a few days. When I realized yesterday that all my work and money so far had not fixed a thing I was so far beyond angry... I swear I would've sold the POS for half what I've got in it.

 

Something else has been bothering me in trying to figure this out. I assume the odd wear pattern on the old rod bearings should be a clue. If this noise was a flexplate or balancer it shouldn't have caused the rod bearings to wear unevenly within each bearing should it? Of course maybe that is just one more additional issue.

Whoever "rebuilt" this motor doesn't appear to have really given a crap. So far I have found that they apparently were in love with silicone gasket maker, they didn't bother scraping the block where the oil pan gasket goes as there was still some cork gasket beneath the new gasket they installed, it doesn't appear they put any effort into cleaning or straightening the pan before they put it back together and the intake bolts were tightened however tight the person felt like with no uniformity.

 

Rebuit...yeah right. Sounds like it was just re-assembled.

I can attest to the exhaust leak sounding like a rod knock. Years ago, I sold a known very good 350 SBC to a guy. He called two days later, demanding his money back, and swearing at me for selling him a bad motor. I looked at his install and discovered it was a leaking exhaust donut gasket.

Also, years back we had a 289 with a convertor bolt hitting the cover. That sounded bad too.

Lastly, is the 289 pan baffled? I had a 350 that ticked when turned over, I took the pan off and discovered the crank just touched a bend baffle in the pan causing the noise.

 

No baffle. It's just a stock, nothing special pan.

 

My employers car eats the keyway out of the balancer every 2 or three years. The keyway gets wider and makes more noise over time.

 

Well, it appears that every possible scenario, and in my opinion, some impossible scenarios for engine noise have been covered in this thread. Certainly all the possibilities I would be investigating have been mentioned. So, whatever you find to be the culprit, I hope you'll post so this thread can have some closure. Inquiring minds want to know......

 

OK, one last weird one...I had a stock 70' 302 that a fan belt made a knocking sound, it was cracked to the piont where only a thin strip at the outer band was holding it together..

 

Just another possibility is a stuck hydraulic lifter to consider...

Take a piece of hose and put one end on your ear and just run it over the top of the engine near to each cylinder and see if you can track the area of the knock just for starters.

 

It sounds to me like it has retarded ignition,that POS HEI wanna be is JUNK[personnel experience]! Retarded ignition will cause a knock and it will beat up the rod bearings and the knocking may lessen with RPMs as the advance adds ignition lead!The fact of some cylinders not responding as much as others when you pulled a plug wire makes me think it is wire/distributor issues! ROY.

 

I have a great solution,A completely rebuilt 289,setting on my engine stand.That I would love to sell.

 

Well first things first. I'm surprised there isnt more interest in the junk in the pan.

Before you go and do anything else to waste time figure out what the pieces from the pan came from. Try a magnet to see if they contain iron. Try cleaning them to see what color they are and whether or not they are hard or soft. yellow metal is likely a distributor gear, aluminum is likely a piston skirt (ford pistons like to come apart), if its soft enough to be bent with your finger nail it is likely bearing pieces. If it sticks to the magnet its a crap shoot.

Next cut open your oil filter and see whats in it.

Then if you dont have an answer start by checking the lifters, rockers, and "valve lash" Its easy and should be done anyway after a rebuild.

 

I questioned the timing after the bearings seemed to make no change. I'm not a fan of the distibutor either, mostly because I believe it was made in china. I am also not wild about the cost of revamping the ignition system either. But I guess I gotta do what I gotta do.

I'm told that unless I'm planning to turn alot of rpms a dual point is unnecessary. Is that correct?

 

Why it doesnt change much when you pull the number 7 plug wire makes me think your hearing a detonation rather than a rod

 

Wait you changed the bearings? Did you check for play in the piston pins/rod. did you look at the cam lobes while the pan was off? Did you actially put a timing gun on it?

 

Yes, I have already replaced the rod bearings.
I didn't notice any play in the pins, but at this point I'm not ruling anything out.
I did not pay any attention to the cam when the pan was off since I was so confident that the rod bearings were the trouble.
Yes I did put a timing gun on it. It was only at about 3 degrees(can't say exactly since the balancer is only marked 0, 6 and 12)

 

I'm all out, if its not detonating, carb, or busted ring..... no idea.

 

If it has a nylon timing gear there is a posibility that it has pulled a tooth and it is stuck in the chain???

 

I pulled the distributor tonight to check the to see if I could get myself some more clearance someway or another and also check the gear since it was coming out anyway. I marked everything(rotor, body, engine block) before I pulled it so I knew where everything had been. Now I can't get it to sit all the way back down in. It is about 1/4 to 3/8 inch from fully seated. WTH? At first I thought maybe the oil pump drive was not contacting the distributor as it should, but it appears that if that were the problem it would be even further away from seated than it is.

 

I had a car with loose engine-transmission bolts. Made a nasty knock. Went away as soon as I tightened it up.

Cosmo

 

had a dd chevy van with 350 th400 that developed a knock thought it was a rod by the sound but turned out to be a cracked flex plate. try unbolting the torque converter and sliding it back into the trans so its loose from the flex plate then start the engine to see if the knock goes away.

 

Step one...
Replace that POS jerry rig distrubutor, stock single points would be a heck of lot better than that junk. Make sure you get a new oil pump driver.
Step Two...Identify the block and inspect the flexplate and balancer, make sure everything is in order and the correct weight for the engine. Later 302s used a different balancer and flexplate.
Step three... check compression.
Step four... check and adjust the vavles.
Step five... If you drop the pan, get a light and study #1 and #5 cylinder and pistons. These are the most likely to have skirt failure. Check the rest too.
Step six...Check and make sure the rods or counter weights are not contacting the bottom of the cylinder bores. A 302 crank may have been used, thats fine, but sometimes there could be clearance problems due to the longer throw. Solution, file bottoms of cylinder for proper clearance.
Step seven... Remove belts, loosen converter from flex plate, grasp balancer and see if you can shake it, up and down, side to side, there should be no play.
Step eight ... See if you can slide crank back and fourth, with a medium sized screw driver, you should NOT be able to slide the crank back and fourth by prying between block and balancer. Be firm in this test but not He-Man.
Step nine... Double check exhaust headers/manifolds, the doughnut and or header gaskets, look for holes or leaks in pipes.
Step 10...
If nothing is found and the problem persists, pull engine, get it on the stand and tear it down then go from there.

 

Did whoever reassembled the motor put number 7 piston in the bore around the wrong way?? I had a motor put together by a wanna be, and 1 piston was in the wrong way, causing max piston slap with the gudgeon offset / thrust side on the wrong side.. Just a thought..

 

Check the firing order as previously mentioned.
Make sure the rotor is in phase with the plug leads.

Note the Ford dizzy spins the opposite direction to a GM HEI [ I've seen the firing order go the wrong way before ]

 

Sound like it isn't line up with the oil pump shaft, but @the moment it's been just a little too long to think if that is the right amount.

 

can you post a video of the noise? and the dizzy might be getting caught on the o-ring. a little petroleum jelly will help it go. try "installing" it without the oil driveshaft. also check the teeth. like everyone already said. check the bolts and torque. have you tried to do a compression or leakdown test? check the heads/ valvetrain out as well.

 

Don't force that POS hei distributor down.
Standard procedure when replacing a Ford distributor is to align rotor etc with your marks and drop into hole.
The distrib will sit up about 1/2 inc or so.
Turn motor by hand or by starter (only need about 1/2 to 1 revolution) and the distributor will drop into place.
That is the procedure with a good old (quality) Ford distributor and this should? work with the POS gm unit.
-The oil pimp drive (hex key) and the distributor gear both need to align themselves before the distrib will drop down into place.
A 1/2 revolution of the engine usually aligns both the oil pump drive and the distrib gear.

..And I'm with the others in stating... Get rid of that piece of shit HEI distributor.
Any Ford Duraspark distributor is good for 7000++ rpm as well as the stock Ford coil and Motorcraft spark plug wires make for an exceptionally good, -powerful/hot- and reliable electronic ignition system.


Good luck with your project.

.

 

I agree with the opinions that the oil pump drive hex and the hex on the distributor are not lined up,also the rotor moves as you lift it out so you need to phase the rotor so that it moves back to your mark as you slide the distributor back in! I do not light those hybrid distributors because the one I used did not fit[had to grind on it and the intake],sound familiar,then it wiped out the drive gear and the cam[flat tappet]as we were breaking in the cam!I talked the owner into a 'Ready-to-Run' MSD,it is doing great after five years of use!!Initial timing on most SBFs is 6-10 degrees with total at 30-34 degrees. ROY.

 

I went out and messed with it a little more last night and the distributor is at least back in. I'm hoping to order a distributor, coil etc. today. Still haven't decided which distributor to use. I'm considering the Pertronix http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pnx-d134600/media/images which you guys had suggested in the past, or a Mallory http://www.jegs.com/i/Mallory/650/8352M/10002/-1?parentProductId=1330581
I'm partial to Mallory just because I've used their products in the past.