Agreed, while there are many small question marks on this build, one of the big ones is how to go about the rear body half; continue searching, use what I have, buy an expensive repop or fabricate? In an earlier post I think I mentioned my fab skills are not great, so who knows? Will take my time on this, no hurry.
I think making the back of a 28/9 roadster pickup is completely with in your capacity. Even with close to no tooling it’s feasible to make something passable for a low buck hot rod. Easier than wrapping Christmas presents lol
Here’s what mine looked like to give you an idea......this was before I took the box off and turned it back to a Phaeton. This was not an uncommon practice for people to make it into a truck during WW11 , as you were able to get more gas if it was a truck.
Wow, thanks for sharing. It gives a pretty close look at what I'm aiming at. Even if mine starts out with the phaeton part, I can always change it.
Not sure if it would be bad to cut up that phaeton piece, but if they are not in big demand, what I could do is cut the side panels loose from the rear extensions, move it back a few inches, split it down the middle, widen it and graft it back to the side panels. It would make the seat area wider and deeper, give more leg room, and smooth out those big step transitions. Hope that makes sense? Because I'll be using the S10 parallel leaf springs and making the rear frame rails, it can have a slightly longer wheelbase to accommodate the extra length. Thoughts?
My fab work doesn't always look quite as good as I envision, but as you say, it's a pretty simple piece. We'll see.
Hi... RPU rear body section is narrow than the Phaeton, so you find the subrails are a bit different in size. But this is not Ford Barn! I think Brookville Roadster sell RPU subrails too! If you want to start from there!
Funny that you mentioned Ford Barn. Several years ago I posted my AA doodlebug project on there, not a very warm welcome. Lol It's very nice to get the support and feedback here. Thanks all!
Yeah! Haha! Both forums are great!! I love Ford Barn since all the Hot rods came from factory cars... I like to learn about!
There is a thread on here about using a mid 90’s jeep hood to fab the rear panel on a rpu. Not sure if that’s helpful or not. I have one in inventory. One of my projects apparently has a phaeton cowl.
VERY interesting! I'm thinking this RPU might go thru several stages and changes as it is built, driven and refined. That rear panel might stay as a phaeton, get fabbed from scratch or get made from a Jeep hood. Please share as many pics as you are willing, we can learn from each other.
It might be worthwhile to explain the timeline on the RPU project, as to some it might seem to be progressing slowly. We've been riding, racing and fixing vintage motorcycles for many years. Not high dollar Indians or Harleys, but lots of BSA's, Bultacos, Hondas, etc. My brother and I started riding on a mini bike back in the sixties, then progressing thru many other bikes, and I wanted to race after seeing "On Any Sunday". My very strict dad wouldn't hear of it, but when I turned 18, went to the local dirt track to race on my Honda twin. I was ejected from the house, but continued to race, either motorcycles or cars, for the rest of my life. I just officially "retired" from competition last fall after 50 years. The habit of being in the shop every day started at a young age, as we (dad, mom, my brother and I) ran a body and paint shop out of our barn, and also did engine swaps and valve grinding. Mind you, we were not paid to work in dad's shop, we also had side jobs to buy our school clothes and pay any fees. Nonetheless being in the shop was my haven, and was quiet and peaceful compared to the hectic and sometimes violent homelife we had. So to this day, I'm happiest out in the shop with my old junky projects. Now dad often told us we were going to fix something and keep it and get to use it. and talked about building hot rods, none of which ever happened, The closest we came was the Model A doodlebug he drug home and we completely rebuilt and actually used for discing, harrowing and blading. We read every magazine and book we could get our hands on, especially anything by Leroi "Tex" Smith! We also devoured the JC Whitney catalog and also spent time looking thru the "Dutchman" or Hollander interchange book, we were hungry for info! My brother and I have the same model bikes we had in high school, also the doodlebug and other things, and we laugh about how we seem to be recreating our younger lives (only better) one rig at a time. So here we are in the present and although I'm no longer racing, old motorcycles just seem to find me. Just sold an M120 Pursang that was in beautiful shape, and currently working on an El Montadero, a Lobito, a BSA 650 Firebird Scrambler, and an SL350 (have had many of these and raced one as a Novice in '73). Have been working on my wifes '55 Dodge Custom Royal sedan, it has a 440 and Torqueflite, have been upgrading all systems on that and am currently looking for a 65-67 B-Body rear end for it. We have a pretty decent two bay shop with a two post lift and add-on carport. The carport is where the RPU will be torn apart and then rough assembled. Doing that to keep the shop bays and lift usable for all the other projects. The carport is getting cleaned and organized, then will bring in some gravel and semi-level it out. At that point the RPU project will actually get underway. So pardon the life story, but just wanted to give an understanding of where I'm at and why. Thanks for reading. PS; LC Garage is for last chance garage, that came from one of those signs everybody buys. Bought one of those signs many years ago, and yet it has fit perfectly as we always take on really junky projects and bring them back to life.
RPU drivetrain thoughts... I'm committed to the 283, I think for a light little roadster a slightly warm 283 will be great. I'm also happy with the rear end chosen, the S10 with disc brakes. What I'm re-thinking/questioning is intake and cam for the 283, and subsequently the transmission to go along with that. Originally was going with a TH350 (have one), and if I stuck with a stock cam and single 4 barrel (have an old Offy single 4bbl), that would be fine, but kind of boring. So at one of the local cruises was talking to Dr Q (for quadrajet, he's a carb guru and character) and as we talked about the 283, he says "I've got a Duntov cam out of a 283". I asked about the history, condition, etcetera. A used cam can be pretty risky, it's at least worth thinking about, but it would put my choice of transmissions into question. So as I'm pondering this (I do a lot of pondering) another old friend that I went to high school with, tells me he's got an original 270 horse 283 dual quad intake. Might even have the correct small carbs for it. So now I'm thinking, maybe I go ahead and build the 283 with a slight overbore (.060), the power pack heads we found, the Duntov and the dual quads. Then put a T10 behind it, with appropriate rear gears, maybe 3.73's. I have history with 283's, my high school El Camino was a 283 power pack and T10, a few years later we built a 270 horse 283 and put it in a friends 56 210 with a 4 speed. Attached are pics of the El Camino and its 283;
I have the front of a Phaeton, and also have the repop parts to make it into a RPU (quarter panels and rear cab panel). The length is the same to the back of the curved section of the Phaeton as to the RPU cab. So you're not gaining any space by using the Phaeton pieces. On mine, I'm using some of the Phaeton section behind the front doors to attach the RPU quarter panels to in order to stretch the cab, because I'm 6'2" and as you said these trucks are quite small. You could make a back panel, but then your cab would be extra short. You need quarter panels for the RPU to make the cab at least the RPU length. That section behind the doors is much shorter on a phaeton. Only one way to get better fab skills. Practice
I'm putting a 283 in mine, and I'll be running a 300 hp 327 cam because it needs to sound like a hot rod. I'll also be running an automatic.
Oh, well,here's my 2 cents. once you get your carport leveled out, how about setting your frame op on jackstands or whatever. level as you can, then mock up the body parts you have - including the phaeton back. Sit in it, trying different hts, etc. If you can be reasonably comfortable, consider building with what you have - - don't worry about the phaeton back. Lots of good 2 seater hot rods were built over the years using the front half of phaetons and nobody thought twice about it. Hot rod badge of honor!
This was my first thought, that's what I would do. You've already got that piece, and it's original Ford stuff, may as well use it. Any space gained inside the cab will be well appreciated once it's done, especially if you're tall. I have nothing against a TH350 transmission, I have two of them in 2 different 50's cars, but you do gain some space in the floor hump by running a manual trans, as the hump has to be pretty big to cover the TH350, depending on how you mount it. That's another thing to consider. Overall, I like where you're heading with this.
More 283... One of my motorcycle buddies that lives in central Oregon, heard I was building a 283. He said he had a complete old (but never installed) Speedway 283 balanced rotating assembly (pistons n rings, rods, crank, main and rod brgs) somewhere out in his shop. I asked if he could dig it out and see what shape it was in, especially the crank. He called yesterday and also sent some pics. Basically it's all complete and still in boxes except the crank, which probably only need polishing. The Badger pistons are .030, which would be just fine. He's offered all of it to me at a pretty cheap price - $400. Our next trip West we'll swing by and have a look and if it seems like it's all there and usable, I'd do it.
I've been quiet, but not slacking...the usual work on old motorcycles continues, getting the '55 Dodge ready for our local parade (where the revamped cooling system held up, but it did vapor lock at the end of the parade), and most importantly working on getting the carport ready to actually start on the RPU. Here are some progress pictures of the carport, first it shows things picked up and somewhat organized but with the dirt floor, then the load of gravel, then roughly spread (I borrowed an old Massey Ferguson with a box scraper, not the ideal tool), then hand shoveled and raked out, then starting to set up a few of the tools I've been hoarding waiting to have a place to put them.
Today I took chucka's advice and just used a long pallet/packing crate we'd scrounged up, leveled it in the carport, and started dismantling the RPU, so it could get brought inside and start the rough assembly. Didn't get quite as far as I'd of liked, apparently some bees had taken up residency in the Model A and weren't too happy about their home coming apart. I'll let the pictures tell the story for today.
More work on stripping the frame today, and since i'm working alone and without any sort of lift capability outdoors, had to get creative. Lifting the engine and transmission out of the frame wouldn't work, but what if I could lift the frame up and off the engine, trans and front axle assembly? This ended up working pretty well, and was able to get things apart without cutting, torching or ruining any of the stock pieces that are being returned to the Model A wrecking yard. Next up will be cutting or grinding away the rivets that hold running board brackets as well as all of the mechanical brake linkages and a few other pieces. With those removed, the frame can at last come inside and rough fit up can begin. Todays pics;
More work on stripping the frame today, and since i'm working alone and without any sort of lift capability outdoors, had to get creative. Lifting the engine and transmission out of the frame wouldn't work, but what if I could lift the frame up and off the engine, trans and front axle assembly? This ended up working pretty well, and was able to get things apart without cutting, torching or ruining any of the stock pieces that are being returned to the Model A wrecking yard. Next up will be cutting or grinding away the rivets that hold running board brackets as well as all of the mechanical brake linkages and a few other pieces. With those removed, the frame can at last come inside and rough fit up can begin. Todays pics;
Plans changed, had an able-bodied friend stop by today, so with his help, brought the frame inside. One benefit to bringing it in now, is at least I'll be out of the sun while stripping the frame.
Made really good progress yesterday, stripping the frame in preparation for the coming mock-up. Needed to remove running board mounts, all mechanical brake cross shafts, battery box, steering gear and a few other brackets and mounts. I'm trying to remove these things without ruining them as they are going back to the wrecking yard. Also worth noting, I'd like to try and identify the steering box. It's not stock Model A, and someone went to a fair amount of trouble to install it back in the day. Sadly they really butchered the frame, but that can be fixed. On the first running board bracket, used the wheel of death to cut most of the rivet heads off, then ground the remainder flush and used a big punch and hammer to separate the pieces. I over-ground the first one and took a gouge out of the bracket, so tried to more careful on the next ones. Everything else was cut, ground or unbolted. One thing I'm really impressed with is the quality of metals and hardware on the Model A. Many of the bolts were still in nearly perfect shape and simply unbolted after decades in the outdoors. Try that with the crap they sell nowadays!
Do yourself a favour with the gravel floor. Squirt a bit of water on it every so often, don't flood it just a light spray. It will help the 'fines' as we call them in road construction settle between the stones. This will stabilise the surface and it will pack down better. Keep cranking on the project.
Had an extra couple hours this afternoon, so moved forward on the first steps of the mockup process. Used a short piece of 2x4 as a "spring" and a couple hose clamps to keep it and the drilled front axle in place. Out back put the frame rails on jackstands, then rolled the S10 rear end in from behind and kind of sat it in place. There was a lot of finagling, but kinda got it where I wanted it, at least for a first look-see. Then sat the front tires and rims next to the axle, just for a visual. Next step will be to set body pieces on and start getting an idea how it will all come together. I'm already thinking that light little roadster will probably only need the single main leaf. Also, just noticed the '29 RPU photo (see above) I borrowed from @Mr48chev is using a phaeton body section. Doesn't look too bad.
Spent yesterday morning mocking up the body on the RPU, some of it went well, other parts, not so good. Overall look is pleasing; The plan to use the S10 parallel leaf springs is losing steam, the spring width lands the springs and their mounting points right where the box side panels should go. In this pic you can see how poorly this combination works together; I'm thinking about going back to an A or T rear spring with split wishbones to match the front. Thoughts? Until the roadster parts are exchanged onto the cowl, the doors are a very weird fit; Despite the many challenges that lie ahead, getting to see it mocked up is motivating. This weekend a young motorcycle racing buddy of mine is coming over to help finish dismantling the 283, as he wants to learn more about V8's. Another old friend from high school contacted me, he's selling his horde of Chevy parts and is making me a good deal on a 270/283 dual quad intake and carbs. Other than the 283 tear down, will be taking a break from the RPU in order to get a couple of the old bikes together and sold. I need the cash for more parts!
In addition to the space issue, I would be concerned about getting weird ride characteristics from having both transverse and parallel leaf springs on the same vehicle. Kind of opposite action but maybe it wouldn't be an issue. I'm using a 2wd S10 rear on mine (28 RPU full fendered) but plan to use ladder bars and a buggy spring.
The Jalopy Journal
