I have NEVER seen MIG welding on bodywork that didn't look like ****, it is just coverd with mud and forgotten. TIG is the way to go IMO. If you can gas weld and hammer weld tin that has worked well since the dawn of welding time.
I am planning on buying a Miller synchrowave 200 next week. Supposed to get everything for around 2 g's.
There is a TIG for under $2k that can do most anything you'd want. Try a Thermal Arc [SIZE=-1]PRO-WAVE 185TSW. They are a very nice inverter style TIG welder that goes from 5 to 185 amps. I bought one and love the thing. Has more features than I'll use, I paid around $1,600 for mine with the usual stuff (foot pedal, regulator, torch, stick lead, ground lead, etc.). The only comparable unit is a Miller that is about a $1,000 more. regards, DJ [/SIZE]
The reason that TIG is used on aircraft has to do with weight, not capability.... but to answer your question, yes, I have seen MIG welding in the airplane industry. Now, please feel free to back up the statement as to why you seem to think there is NO TIG welding in the aircraft industry.... Also, what does brazing have to do with anything at all? PS: TIG and MIG... one isn't better than the other... they are completely different processes used for different things.
Based on what you're saying here, I'm with the people telling you to get a decen MIG... the MM210 suggestion was definitely a good one. As for sheet metal work, TIG is way better. Really, regular oxy-acetylene gas welding is better than MIG for that stuff (***uming you've practiced enough to "get it"). I think the difference between MIG and TIG would be like trying to draw with a charcoal briquette (MIG) vs. a freshly-sharpened pencil (TIG). I also agree with those that mentioned that learning to gas weld first is a good way to get the hang of what a TIG will do. Plus it's way le$$ to get started with gas. Maybe that's what you should do! Get a MIG and get a decetnt Victor gas rig.
Then you obviously aren't looking very hard at all. Want to be proven wrong? Find ANY piece of Caterpillar contruction or paving equipment and look at the welds on there. All of them will be uniform, nice in appearance, and extremely sound in terms of their applications. Maybe you're not capable of making wire feed welding look good... that doesn't mean professionals can't. I, for example, will be using wire feed on the entirety of the car I'm building, and I'll personally be challenging people like you to show me an "ugly weld".
Actually, gas *isn't* better.... oxy acetylene welding will always produce MUCH more HAZ than MIG OR TIG... so it will always warp more. That's precisely what you are trying to avoid!
One overlooked advantage of the MIG is that you can operate it with one hand, leaving the other hand free to hold your beer.....or the part you want to weld.
You're right, but at least you can still work it with the gas weld. With MIG, the sheet metal will get petrified. Plus, you'll have a lot more grinding to do, and those that don't warp the panel with the MIG, often warp it with grinder heat. But when it all comes doen to it, you just gotta know what you're doing with whatever tools you're using to melt pieces of metal together.
I'm no expert on welding. I wasn't aware of any aircraft MIG welds. It's good to know that Caterpillar equipment has nice MIG welds. Ever seen any MIG welds on an IHRA or NHRA Top Fuel car, Funny Car, or Pro Stock car? On high-end, hand-built bicycle frames, silver brazing is highly thought of because of the relatively low temperature it can be done at. Dave http://www.roadsters.com/
MiG is used on some small aircraft, even the airframes. The problem with MiG, and a big reason it's not used widely for critical applications is you really can't control the penetration. Yes, you can turn the heat up and down but you can't speed up or slow down as your welding like you can with TiG. With TiG, you can control the weld pool by increasing or decreasing the heat or speeding up or slowing down as necessary. You don't have anywhere near that kind of control with MiG.
BTW, the aluminum frames on all Club Car golf and 4X4's cars are MIG welded. The welds aren't pretty, but they DO hold up in service. They do this for the speed and easy of training new people in the weld shop. regards, DJ
I'm in the Airforce and been in for almost 9 years and I can tell you I've never seen any Aircraft part mig welded "Not that I'm a complete expert". I work Depot Maintance here at Hill AFB in Utah so I'm not a complete noob. I've only worked F-16's and some other fighter planes so I'm not saying it doesn't happen but everything I've seen welded has been TIG'd. For the most part if a part is broken we order or make new one's. I'm with most the other guys and I'd buy a MIG way before I'd buy a TIG expecially if you haven't welded before. Everyone I've ever met "Including myself" gets proficient with gas or MIG before attementing TIG.
I started with OA, learned MIG years later and prefer TIG. I am not in a production environment, TIG is the way to go for most stuff for me. I can weld SS, aluminum, and steel, the welds are not hard like MIG and can be E wheeled and hammered, and they are nicer looking too! Pretty damn close to AO welding with the advantages of electric control. If you are not too heavy on the metal work, by all means go MIG. If you want to be really traditional, go OA. I have known guys who can OA weld like you would never believe! regards, DJ
Your comparisons are ridiculous. lol Let me boil this down for you: Because MIG isn't used extensively in aircraft, or drag racing, it's inferior? Well bucko, tell you what... when you've gone to school for welding and work a job as a state certified professional welder you feel free to let me know how things go, ok? PS: You may not think you see MIG welds in drag racing, but I can tell you for a fact that a lot of rallye cars (which take far more abuse than drag cars) have cages and such that are usually MIG welded.
Actually, if you know anything about welding you now that this shouldn't be a problem based simply on one thing... if the material is thick enough that you have to worry about penetration you should be beveling before welding anyhow.
I'd bet you a million dollars that I could point out multiple wire feed welds on even an air force plane. You're not considering that the internals of the plane, the mounts, etc. are all metal. I am in full belief that the exterior panels of an airplane will be TIG welded... but I fail to believe that EVERYTHING will be TIG welded.
Actually, if you do much welding you'd know that's not always an option. Nor is it any kind of guarantee. What happens when you have to do multiple p***es on thicker material?
You SHOULD be doing multiple p***es on thicker material. lol That's all we do at the structural steel plant where I work. Multiple p*** flux core on anything from 1"-3" thick. And yes, it IS a gaurantee... which is why it's mandatory in most structural welding. Running a gap and bevel is the only way to be sure you are getting 100% penetration. There's also these amazing new things... maybe you've heard of them? They are called "BACKING STRIPS". Impressive technology. Beveling is always an option. It's all in the planning. Know where your welds that you need to bevel will be and make sure they are beveled before ***embly. Welcome to the most basic rule of structural and heavy production welding. :thumbup: And yes, I do know... it's what I do for a living. What do you do for a living specifically? Oh, and in response to your comment... "The problem with MIG, and the reason it's not commonly used in critical applications...."... wow... you just proved to me that you don't really know a whole lot about welding in the real world. In real "critical applications", like structural and architectural welding, MIG is used VERY frequently. High deposition and "spray arc" are unbelievably useful in these "critical welds" done in the field... that's not the mention or negate things like FCAW, which is used in the framing for buildings when stick ISN'T. No offense, but don't try to argue about welding and "critical welds" with someone who works in the field and does this stuff professionally.
if you have no experience and are not going to be welding major structural items yourself anyway get a decent mig. I got a 170 amp lincoln for about 900 bucks bottle and all about 8 years ago. it has never let me down, though I did borrow my buddies big *** miller to weld in my mustang II crossmember and would do the same for a frame. I recommend you have someone show you how to do it. I welded quite a few things thinking I was doing OK before I really got it right. i prolly still could use a lesson or 2.
Its funny how a thread about "what welder should weld some patch panels on my rotten '47 oldsmobile" - can become a battle of professional welders comparing ***** size.
Can you give me a detailed technical description of what it would be less of a challenge to TIG weld that same sheet metal?
I think it's safe to say that there's no "***** comparison" or real ill will between him and I.... just two guys in different areas of a field having a discussion. What worries me is that you seem to, admittedly, think a lot about other guys *****es. Now that's something kinda funny....
I said as far as I know there arn't any that I know of, I didn't say there weren't any. I work airframes and I can totally tell you that there are NO mig weld's on the structure at all, I know that for a fact. Because 95 percent of airframes are aluminum and they are either machined or cast. But car's arn't aircraft and arn't subject to anything near the stresses airframes are. I personally would weld up a frame "Car/truck frame" with a mig and not think twice about it. But then again I don't plan on showing any car/truck I build at high dollar shows anyway. If someone got down and looked at the welds on my frame I'd laugh my *** off, I'm building my truck for me to drive and have a good time with. I think this guy would do just fine with a MIG IMO. Unless your looking to compete with guys like Boyd and such but to each his own. TIG welds are awesome looking and you can control the metal much better with it but there's 10000's of old rodders out there that made some beautiful cars with just a MIG. Just my 2 cents... but we all know what that's worth
First off, I've seen a lot of grooves filled with multiple p***es that had very little penetration. Ever do a bend test on a weld that looked real nice and fell apart when tested? I've seen plenty. I guess I mispoke when I said MiG isn't used for critical applications, since that term in open to interpretation. Afterall, I did mention above that it is used on aircraft, including smaller airframes. As for construction applications, stick and MiG are used primarily because TiG is way slower and much more expensive as a result. But I think if you asked 100 experienced welders, about 90 or better would tell you that TiG is a superior process. If you want to run MiG wire all day long, that's fine with me. But I'll continue to switch between the two depending on application.
I disagree. If you were to ask 100 professional welders they would answer you with a question.... "What is the project/job?". Like I said before, and you prove with your closing statement.... one isn't "superior" to the other, because they each have their own place. As for bend tests, yes, plenty. But if you know how to rum wire feed properly you should never have anything to worry about. Once you know what you're doing penetration is the least of your concearns cognitively. You know how to tune the machine, what the toe should look like (good indicator while welding).... Bend tests are the piddly **** though. Jobs like mine require a state administered X ray. Quite literally they handed me two beveled 1" plates 8" long and a flux setup and said "Weld these together. No porosity is allowed, and you can't have over a certain percentage of slag inclusion." I think it's safe to say that if I can weld 1" plates together without porosity or slag inclusion I can p*** any bend test. The problem you are talking about (often referred to as welding over the weld) is a very easy problem to correct.... LEARN TO WELD! 99% of the time it's something that only happens when you are a beginning welder and you don't know what to look for while welding to show you are getting penetration. As for MIG and FCAW and STICK being used in construction just because TIG is too slow and expensive, think again. FCAW would be used in the field when a large GMAW setup can't be taken up up a ladder, or where the environment will blow shielding gas away pretty instantaniously... and STICK is used because of its dig effect it has. It doesn't always have anything to do with speed or cost. If it were true that TIG were "better" than I would think that state and federal structural steel requirements would say I need to be TIG welding the I beams for a 60 story building rather than FLUX welding them..... I didn't mean to offend earlier... I just found it extremely incorrect to say that you can not control penetration when MIG welding... because you most definitely can! It can be as easy as making a simple decision.... push or pull?!
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