3.54 Banjo Rebuild Issues.....

Here is a good Gear Ratio Calculator to use
www.et-studios.com/motorsports/gears/gears.html
Type in your tire size, gears ratios and get your mph in each gear.
Running 3:54's and 3000 rpms equals 72
With the Mitchell (26% overdrive) 3000 gives me 64 mph, final ratio of 2:62. Much more freeway friendly.

 

Correction.....3000 rpm gives me 98 mph with Mitchell
2000 rpm gives me 64 mph with Mitchell
without Mitchell
3000 rpm = 72 mph
2000 rpm = 48 mph

sorry about that !!

 

They would be for the bearings on each side of the differential case. The tapered roller would have to be removed and some shims installed or as was mentioned earlier the cups can be removed and some shims installed under them. If the bearings are new, this would be the best recourse. If they are worn old bearings you might try some new ones.

The old 28 to 48 Ford parts book doesn't show any shims for these so they would have to be fabricated from some shim stock. Brass shim stock is available and easy to work or to be safe, they could be fabricated from some thin sheet steel stock if you can find some.

You may have some off spec bearings there too. It's pretty rare that they wouldn't require at least 2 gaskets for each side of the third member. So many of these old parts have been mixed & matched over the years that the parts just aren't working too well together. With Chinese bearings entering the mix, who knows?

 

Looks like Mac's has shims in .005 and .010 for the carrier bearings as part of the "deluxe" gasket and shim set. call them, see if they have them separate or make them out of soda can stock. or beer can. keep opening new ones til you get the circle cutting right.

 

I bought the gasket kit BUT no shims in it. Looks like that stopped in 1932 kits. If I take some shim stock and put it in it will have to be cone shaped. Right? (between the carrier bearings and the race?

 

Oh- Funny thing is - there is no drag on the axles at all. They turn without the 10 lbs. of drag.

 

I think you will find that the bearings will not allow the side bells to tighten up to the center section without jaming the diff. case bearings. The shims would then have to go betwen the side bells and the center section. They are the gaskets. You REALLY need to get a fix your ford book and study how all this is done.

 

Look here: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=462776.

 

Andy: I do have most of all of the instructions on how to do this thanks to the HAMB guys and I've done it before.BUT I'm trying to figure out what is wrong with this unit I',m doing now. Think I'm getting there. Got to be in the carrier spider gear area.

 

What exact parts are you assembling. The 36 and down rears have smaller side bearings. You must use the side bearings for the side bells you are using. If you are putting the later differential in an earlier rear, use the early bearings. There is never a reason to shim the bearings out in their bores.

 

Andy: It is all '40-'47 parts BUT from 2 different rear ends. I've swapped before when I did an open drive.

 

Butch, you're right the carrier bearing shims are for the early rears.

But this is what you need to do to get preload in your bearings.

This may not be the correct thing to do, according to the books, but the book is not considering 60 year old parts.

I would make a flat shim, like a washer to go under the cup in the bell. Say .010 material (or anything close that is availible), one on each side. put it together and see what you get for a gap.

Maybe the first thing to do would be to measure the bell. From the big flange put a flat across that and measure down to the bottom of the bearing bore. Compare that measurement on both bells. Cause maybe only one has a problem. Then you would just want to shim the bell with the bigger dimention to match the other one. If both bells read the same then split the shims even. Or you will run into problems later setting the tooth contact.

Do both bells fit the cups nice? or has one been spun and look chewed up?

Frank.

 

A call to you guys working on the rear end assembly and worrying about shims. Stop work now.! There is no reason to shim bearings in an early ford carrier. You have something assembled wrong or the mixture of wrong parts. The forum post on how to rebuild a banjo rear pretty much covers assembly and Andy has tried to head off the gasket stack issue. My take is that if you cant get the carrier bearing crush correct you are using the wrong bearings. You need a picture to show the issue and a picture of the parts and pieces to get a solid answer, this is turning into a guessing game.

 

Dick is correct. The thread I linked to above has word-for-word from the Ford manual directions on how to adjust bearing load, etc.

 

Hmmmm, Thats why the Ford parts book doesn't show shims...

cause they ain't supposed to be there.

 

ALright I think I solved my issues by ordering up a new set of 3.54's. But now I need a 6 spline coupler. I searched speedway and Dick Spadaro but could not find one.

Where can I get a 6/6 Coupler????

 

Did you call last I knew we had 6 spline couplers? DS

 

Ha!!! No I did not, I just looked in the PDF catalog real quick at work. I guess I make that call tomorrow Mr. Spadaro!!!

 

Looks like both of us are jumping around here. MY bells are in great shape and I ran them on another rear last year. The ONLY change is the center housing and of course all new bearings from Mac's.

 

OH! And new Speedway gear set.

 

Maybe you have the later 32 through 34 third member housing P/N 18-4025 instead of the 48-4017 housing that was used from 35 through 48. If the old one has more width, that could be a possability. Older hands could be more certain than I.

 

Butch and Jeffrey.....there are differences in axle width, center section width, etc, and it is easy to screw up by using parts from incompatible banjo rears.........here's the skinny from Nick & Ken:

http://www.hotrodworks.com/project_vehicles.asp.html

Study and learn everything that's on that tech page......that's your homework assignment!

CB

 

Seems like the tooth count on the Speedway 3.54's (3.55's?) is not 11-39 as were the
original Ford gears, but are something else??? which causes me to wonder...

If the bearing snout on the back of the Ring Gear is closer to the surface for the differential case than the Ford gears, that could make getting the proper drag impossible without shimming either the bearing or the race, as the carrier bearings would be too close together. Since these are aftermarket parts, I would verify all of the dimensions as compared to Genuine Ford parts. Might answer the question...

 

I too have the Ford 4 speed swap in my "A". It's great. Snyders is a very reputable company with good quality products + their prices are generally lower

 

I installed the Speedway phony *GETZ Gears* in my '48 Merc rear.......you are correct that they do match the Ford gearset exactly and they ARE 3.55 ratio, not 3.54, but that really doesn't matter.......the speedway pinion has 9 teeth and the ring has 32.......gives you 3.55 Close enough....

The gears are very nicely CNC machined in Italy by *Motive Gear* Co. Said on the box that they are the official racing gears used by ARCA cars......very high quality machining....

Cut to the chase........I had to get my pinion shaft machined as it was too big in diameter by .003 and wouldn't allow you to press fit the bearing closest to the banjo.........it also did not have the oil groove that would allow the gear oil to distribute in the channel in the center of the double race........anybody who has done some banjos will know what I am talking about......so I had to spend $160 for new bearings, races, and machining before I could use the gearset which already had cost $300..........having said that, I assembled it and I have had good smooth trouble-free driving for two years now.......

Now, I understand some guys have commented that Speedway has addressed the problem and that the gearset you now buy will be ready to install with no machining........I think I was the guinea pig!

Hope this helps to clarify a bit.......

CB