Hot Rods 301/302 SBC build.

I've come into a small journal rotating assembly based on a forged 283 crank, second design 327 rods, and NEW, Standard size, TRW 302 pistons. Now, I'm having trouble finding a standard bore, small journal, 327 block to stuff it all into. To those that have ACTUALLY built a 301/302 using a 283 block, what casting number 283 block did you use? Some supposedly have thicker cylinder walls than others. I'm really not to keen on taking a 283 .125 over, but it looks like that's what going to have to be done. I have looked into the spacer/adapter bearing to install a small journal crank into a medium journal block, but there's still the issue of finding a standard bore block that does't need an overbore. Cranks out having a polish and dampener retainer bolt hole drilled/tapped at the moment, but I'm already starting to think about selling. What block do I need that has side mounts? I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

The Chevy II 283 block with the recessed oil filter is supposed to be the thickest of the 283's. I happen to have one with standard 3.875" bores. Have no idea as to how much it would cost to get it to WA.
I had 301's from 283 blocks in the old days. If I remember correctly one was a '57 block (no side mounts) another was a '66. Never a problem with either one. I did go to 3.9375" for later builds, but that was to allow for more rebuilds. Never had a car or engine long enough to need to rebuild it to a larger overbore.
"Bore 'em thin to win!"

 

See the link below:

http://www.holisticpage.com/camaro/camaros/302.htm

 

Butch I believe a pre 66 block to be the best. I remember a lot of people building 301's with 61-62 blocks a lot for their gassers back in 62 era the 327 had just come out and the blocks were not available for low buck racers. The alternative is as you said a 350 block with bearing spacers just go looking for one with a bore gauge in hand and don't buy standard pistons any more.

Pat

 

I used a truck block forget the casting number
Balanced 11-1 drilled for 4 bolt mains rev good for 4 years then twisted a rod and cracked 5/7 holes.

 

Hello 56, I am going to use the 519 early Corvette block when I build the 301 for my 38 Willys. I have also been studying up on this and instead of using the 283 block I am thinking about using a 327 block then I won't be getting into the thin cylinder walls that you will get when you bore the 283 .125 over. this will entail having to use a set of custom pistons but it gets you away from the thin cylinder walls. I have to sit down with my engine builder to find out where I will be cost wise. Back in 60's (high school days) everybody used the 283 till Chevy built the 302 and then we all used it. So I am still wondering which way to go when I build mine but I very much what to run the 301 for the sake of the Nostalgic aspect of the Willy's gasser that my Sedan will be. I am going to hang with this thread to see how it turns out, so hopefully we can come up with the best way to build one of these wild high revving small blocks. If there is any of you older drag racing guys out there help us out to which way is the best to build one of these engines.

 

Pin height/compression height is the same for the pistons on all 265's, 283's, 301's/302's, and generally use the same 5.7 inch rod used by all small and large journal (excluding the 400's) engines. Of course you can build one using longer rods and special pistons (or playing with large journal parts), but these already cost enough as is to do that. I am speaking about gen 1 SBC's, and not the later engines. I really did't think finding a small journal 327, standard bore block would be that hard; someones got to have one sitting under a bench for the last 40 years or so, right? I'm not sure what I'm going to do at this point. I may see if I can borescope the 327 in my Sedan Delivery to see if it may be standard bore. I've heard the 812 and 852, and the 519 casting number 283's will take the .125 overbore, but then that's all they'll take. I also have a set of .060 over, forged, small dome 283 pistons on second design 327 rods I could go with; that may be the only way out. Anyone else? I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

I know this sounds stupid, but hear me out.

Go to a street rodder forum, or muscle car forum, eighter those guys run all stock, or those 327 gets thrown out, in place of a 350/383 or crate motor of un important size. And the 327s end up blocking someone's shop till the point where it gets thrown out.

But couldn't you just go 350 block, preferably a small journal '67 or convert a big journal 4 bolt main, there should be an adapters out there.

An even crazier thought, over here it was ones possible getting a 2 liter block punched out to a 3 liter block. This means drilling them so hard there is no walls left, press in sleeves, weld them and bore them to appropriate size.
If it can be done in Sweden, it can be done in North America, and vise-versa.
And you are getting it drilled and deck eighter way, I'm guessing.

 

I've done 301's from both the 3737739 and 3756519 '58-'61 blocks that worked fine. Always was told early blocks and possibly truck units have thicker jackets. Also have been told its hit or miss, some are thinner than others.

 

Thanks 56, that is good to know that the pin height is the same, I have both 283 and 327 blocks that I can use. I was lucky enough to run into a guy a couple years ago that was cleaning out all of his block so I bought all that he had. I am not very fond of the 350 or 400 so I build all early small blocks, but am at heart a true fan of the Big block Chevy engines. I will say that the 283 and 327 are out there you just have to spend the word and soon you will have all that you want, so don't give up, you will find them. Good luck in your search.

 

We used to use the '58-'62 blocks. But you can have any of then sonic checked and get lucky. If push comes to shove you may contact a company like Dart and get a 4" bore block, they may even have them in small journal on request.

One could find a large journal 350 block and use spacers on the bearings. The problem with using spacers on the bearings is hot spots, but it gets done. Federal Mogul used to make thick bearings and maybe there is a set out there still that could be had if someone just wanted to muck around a little bit and find them.

 

We were not at all this sharp when it came to boring the 283's 1/8"---we let her rip on several occasions and had no trouble. I guess " I'd rather be lucky than good" applies to our experience.

 

my only question is WHY???
302's have little if any torque,and don't make any power until way upstairs.
is it a class racecar ? that is the only reason I could see to build one.
just my 2 cents..

 

We did a lot of things when we were young and the only reason that they worked is because we didn't know that they wouldn't. You know what they say ignorance is bliss.

I think that probably the truth be known most 283 blocks will go .125 its just that some will be more stable than others.

You know what they say high rev cruising is a rush.

To build a revver for daily use is probably not good judgment but if one owned something light and it was a play toy it would be fun.

 

It's a era specific thing. If your heard it, it sticks to your mind and heart.

It's like two stroke MX bikes, classic car movies and you mothers toffees. They always have a special place in ones heart.

And if you don't feel the same way, no harm, no fault. We can't change your mind, but please let us weirdos have our own weird corner [emoji12]

 

Hey go build you troque motors and leave us Nostalgic guys alone in our little world, we grew up with these engine and that is what we built our fun around.

 

for another potential source, don't forget 307's, which are the orphan children of 302's. basically a 283 block with a 327 crank., but check casting numbers and wall thicknesses.

 

I'm in total agreement with you, and have said the same thing many times to many guys, and most of my engines have been 327 or 350 SBC's, except for my truck that has a 334 in it (.030 over 305 block with a 400 cutdown crank/rods, and forged pistons-should have built a 383!). This is just something I've always wanted to do, and got the rotating assembly fairly cheap (the pistons alone would be almost twice of what I paid, and everything is new, including rings, bearings, pistons, standard crank, and reconned rods). I also have an 1178 DZ 302 crank I could fall back on by either cutting the rod throws down to small journal size rods the pistons are hung on, or using a set of aftermarket rods with the 302 pistons, and a standard bore 4 bolt 350 block. I have rods, cranks, pistons, blocks, heads, intakes, carbs, cams, and everything else to build just about anything, or several different engines. My 56 Sedan Delivery has a 300HP 327, Muncie 4 speed, and 4.88 Positraction; it's all old school. The 302 would fit right in with the whole theme of the car, and more-so with the 5.13 Positraction third member on the shelf; a strictly-cruising-to-the-local-car-shows car, but not really drag raced. I grew up in "that" time, but was't really too involved then; instead, I graduated at 17, and bought a new 70 340 Dart I paid cash for (worked at a Standard Chevron Dealer all through high school and for a while afterwards). I've been a drag racer since my Dodge Dart days, and that taught me you could't really have a true street/strip car; Pro Bracket, Super Pro, and Super Comp cars followed, but I have't been on the track in 12 years or so. I'm also currently building a Sportsman Bracket car, just to have some fun with based on a 350/350 combo, and not have to deal with all the regs and weekly rule changes that caused me to get out of things for this long. Hope that all helps to answer your question of "why". My wife never questions what I do, buy, sell, or trade, and she always knows what I'm doing, where I'm at, and who I'm with; and it's all mutual. I've also questioned why someone would build one of these small CID, short stroke, high compression engines. I've tried to make other guys realize it's not the way to go, especially at this point in time. No replacement for displacement, build for torque, keep the CR down for today's crappy gas, and many other reasons; it's just not how it's done now. So, back to my original request; I'm asking for help from those guys who have actually done this, and what they used to accomplish it. Anyone with a small journal, standard bore 327, or a proven casting number 283 block for sale or trade? I hope this idea does't wind up on the shelf with some of the other forgotten projects. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

Yep Beaner.... and I yam one BLISSFUL S.O.B.

 

I took this pic a couple weeks ago......

notice the scoop, sweet music......... I've still got a couple. Hands down funniest little engines I've tortured. Flux

 

I have built 3 301s over the last 40 years.All were built on blocks from trucks before sonic block testers were around.At the time I believed the truck blocks were stronger.The first one lost a cylinder in about 3 months.Turned out to have a very thin wall.Second one survived until I sold the car and the third one broke a rod.(I was being a little hard on it).Right now I am building a 292(+060" 283) on a 67 block I had checked for thickness. If I were building a 301 today I would have several 283 blocks checked(unless I got lucky on the first one) and use the thickest one I could find.They vary a LOT regardless of year.

 

Hey steinauge, in your opinion don't you think the 327 block would be the way to go then you would already have the bore you needed, just use the 283 crank and the bottom end would be done. Tell me if i am going down the right lane by building it this way. I already have a 283 .60 over (292) but want to build a 301.

 

If you can find a standard bore 327 block it is absolutely the way to go.
But then you might be tempted to bore it .060" for a 310.
Did this against everyone's advice and it worked out VERY well. Unshrouds the valves on 292 head castings. Revs to the moon. You'd love it.

 

Nothin' like a SBC at 7k--just effin' sings. Really enjoyed this thread. Great contributors.

 

Thanks Gearheads, humm you say 310 very cool.

 

http://m.summitracing.com/parts/cle-ms1110h
http://www.jegs.com/i/Clevite/695/MS1110H/10002/-1
Spacer bearings, OUCH

377 - 350 crank in a 400 block spacer bearings are around $70.

 

from what I have been told they use to use truck 283 blocks to bore .125 for 301 because they were the thickest castings.

 

Large journals again in the 307s.

 

http://youngstown.craigslist.org/pts/5074013965.html

Seems like he wants 250 for 5 blocks
Fastenal ships cheap

 

http://www.tracyvette.com/blockssb.html

He's got a bunch