I'm think about running a 312 Y-block in my'49 ford PU and was wondering what kind of tranny (auto) would mate up to this or does anyone make a univeral bell housing to where a guy could install a later year manual. Also, anybody got any advise on the 312's
OK. This is a fairly involved subject, so I'll post the bare minimum & you can follow up with what interests you the most. The Ford/Merc Y block has a unique trans bell pattern...no other Ford engine matches it, or even comes close. The original auto transmission that came with it is the Ford-O-Matic/Merc-O-Matic. So, the easiest way is simply to find an original Y setup & use it. Some things to keep in mind: '54-'56 setups are air-cooled, which work, but not the best. '57-up are more modern. Car transmissions/engines are mounted more or less like newer vehicles, with side mounts & a trans crossmember; trucks have a front mount, & the bellhousing has two side mounts. The Y never came in a '49, of course, so you will have to fab something. A friend owns a '46 with a Y block & he used old Hurst mounts found on eBay (I think) years ago. They are not common. Your choice on whether the car or truck will be easier to work with....I will say car auto setups are much easier to find. It is also possible to adapt a newer FMX trans to the Ford-O-Matic bell, with some work & parts scrounging. So far as adapters... 1) Flat-O-Matic makes a C4 adaptor(s) for both cars & trucks. 2) Bendtsen's makes an adapter for the AOD, or supposedly any Ford trans. According to some people who have used it, it may have some issues with certain transmissions, & the customer support isn't the best. 3) Bristol Services makes an AOD adapter. 4) Hollywood Automotive makes an AOD adapter. 5) Wilcap makes an adapter to work with any Chevy auto trans, i.e. TH350/400, 700R4, 200R4, etc. So far as the 312 goes...tough to say much until we know a little more about what you need, advice wise. It has good points, & a few problem areas specific to it being a 312...& a couple of more to it being a Y block...just like every other engine out there, I reckon.
YOU KNOW YOUR Y-BLOCKS THANKS FOR THE INFO I HAVE A Y-BLOCK IN MY 58 ALWAYS LOOKING TO LEARN ABOUT THEM
AS far as manual trans goes the T-10 Four speed and top loader four speeds will work. The T-10 as far as I know has the same pattern as the Y Block. Also for the very early toploaders. The later toploaders had a dual bolt pattern on the top, single bolt pattern on the bottom. These will also bolt up. The later toploaders had two and two as far a bolt pattern, but the top holes are wider than the YBlock pattern. However, everybody tells me that you can drill the corectly spaced bolt pattern with no problem. The toploaders (and maybe the T-10) have a longer input shaft so you have to cut about 3/8 of an inch off the part that goes into the pilot bushing. In addition, the front bearing retainer is a sconch to big for the hole in a YBlock bell - you have to trim this a little. I don't know what problems you might run into with a 3 sped. I had to do both of these things when putting a top loader behind my 312.
someone back in the day made an adapter to put a Y-block with the original 3 speed. my buddy did a 302/4 speed swap in one that had a 312 hooked to the original drivetrain with an adapter. ...they took out 20 pounds of squirrel poop from that thing. squirrels must like F-1 pickups.
Every time I read one of your Y-block posts, I feel like an idiot! Thanks for all the good info! I'm still running the 2-speed behind my 292, tops out about 70.
Thanks for the props, gentlemen! There are a couple of guys I can think of, right off the bat, that put me far to shame though. One of them has been running & racing Ys since at least the early '60s & is still going regularly. No need to feel like an idiot...I can't remember my own name most of the time. I believe that adapter is still available from Trans-Dapt. So far as Paul's manual trans info goes, I believe it's all correct in terms of bolt patterns. Some of the T-5s may need the shaft trimmed as well for cars. The only thing I would add is that the bolt pattern info applies to car bells, & the truck bells set up for the light duty 3 speed or MD/OD 3-speeds only. The LD/MD/OD truck bell WILL also accept the Mustang T-5 if modified. If the truck has the HD 3 speed, the 4 speed T-98 (& I think the later T-18 replacement), or any of the other truck options like the Clark, the bellhousing hole is too large to register the bearing retainer for a Toploader or any other 4 speed car trans, like the T-10. It might be possible to machine an adapter ring, but I think the bolt holes are a large problem, the bell is the wrong depth, & if I recall correctly the clutch linkage may be an issue for swaps into certain chassis. I wouldn't ever claim to be an expert on manual setups & I'm a little rusty on them, but somewhere I have a well-written note from someone else on what exactly is involved, at least for truck swaps, & I can dig it out if needed. As posted elsewhere, the Chebby S-10 V-6 T-5 is a practical swap; easy to find, the shifter is farther forward which adds seat clearance, it'll handle the average mild street Y, & the car adapter or modified truck bellhousing are fairly reasonable in price. Toploaders are very cool, but also very expensive these days. The Ford T-10s are getting hard to find, too. Edited to clarify content 11/6
Thanks for the help guys. I was trying to decide to run the Y block or a HO 302 and just run a carb. Thanks Eric
i looked for the adapter on trans-dapts website with no luck....then again i'm not to computer savvy. i have a 53 with the stock 6cyl 3spd. i just got a 54 y block with a parts truck and was wondering what all was involved in the swap... btw --great info guys, keep it comin'
Krop, I may have misread his post. The adapters are basically for late trans-early ('49-'64) bell, or early trans-late bell. I think his buddy may have had an adapter to bolt the 312 directly to a pre-'48 flathead trans. Those still turn up on eBay sometimes. Is the '53 a car or truck?
Obviously the 302 will be a lot less hassle, easier to find parts, cheaper parts, newer block, etc etc...but you'll just be another guy running a 302! In the end, it's going to be what you want to do with your truck. Anyone can run a 302, and dress it up with a Coddington Chrome Kit from your favorite auto parts place.
If your running a Y-block truck bellhousing the input shaft on a car T-10 or Toploader will need to be extended 5/8".....not shortened. When I get a chance I'l do a tech post on how I adapted my '65 Falcon T-10 to my 292 Y-block truck bellhousing/engine combo. -Bigchief.
its a truck. i would use the trans that came with the Y, but its from a grain truck, with PTO ect...the engine does appear to be the ford version instead of the lincoln, but i have yet to check the codes.
The easiest way to tell a Ford/Merc Y block from the Lincoln/HD truck Y is that the area where the thermostat housing bolts on is vertical on a Ford/Merc Y, horizontal on a Lincoln Y. Also, the exhaust manifold bolts are in a straight line on the Ford/Merc...the outer bolts on the Lincoln Y are higher than the others. I am not going to swear to it for a '53...but I believe (don't know for certain) you can use the '54-up front mount & the '54-'64 truck bells & more or less bolt the Y into a '53. You will want to pick the bell for whatever trans you want to use, per above/below. The car bell through '64 has a bearing retainer hole of 4.675" & the trans bolt pattern of '49-'64 car transmissions (sometimes called "high & narrow"). The input shaft length should be 6 1/2" for this bell. The truck bellhousings for the light duty T-85 (car-derived) & medium duty T-89 truck trans, & the T-86 3 speed OD all have a bearing retainer hole of 4.675" & the same bolt pattern as '49-'64 car transmissions. The input shaft on the trans needs to be 7 1/8" for the LD/MD/OD bell. This is the same bell that is modified for the Mustang T-5 swap; this T-5 has the 7 1/8" input shaft, & a different bolt pattern. The HD 3-speed T-87 /4-speed T-98 bell have a bearing retainer hole of 5 1/8", a larger bolt pattern (wide & short) w/bigger bolts, & an input shaft of 7 1/8" ('64-earlier). I believe the Clark 5-speed uses this same bell. '65-later bells, not including the various 5 -speeds, have (need) input shafts of 6 1/2" & a bearing retainer hole of 4.85...& don't come in the Y block pattern. Hopefully this clears things up a bit.
thats all great info. thanks homespun! im still debating whether or not pull the 6. it runs like a top, but does need a clutch so......we'll see. thanks again
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