Technical 32 Model B pickup - Need Help

Wow. Really. They put that in my friend's truck? It looks like the original box and not the aluminum one that was shown in the pics on the other threads. I may have to put the old box back in to see if it makes any difference in the steering. I am going to open his box up and see what is actually in there. I am sure I am not going to like what I see.

 

Okay first off, that'd a nice, straight and solid truck! But that front end needs a little something something (in my best Winnie the Pooh voice?

Those brakes look like they can stop a BBC AFTER a 1/4 mile of wide open!!
I like a good 5 banger build, but it needs to be hopped up a little. Lions head, twin SU or downdraft Strombergs and a good header.

There is a lot of ways to do it. I can really recommend going to spend the time looking at @Dennis lazy buildthread on his 32 truck!

And a dropped front axle, they comes in a narrow version that tucks the wheels in so nice.

I can also recement printing out at least 6 hood pics of @HOTRODPRIMER truck and sit down around the truck and use the BELCOM method.

That's BEer, Lawn Chair and Old Music, and with the HRP truck as reference it will pop out what is "wrong" in this picture.
And them wheels are way off.

furthermore HRP is a welth of Deuce knowledge, and will be able to answer most of your questions.

 

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/index.php?threads/970252/

 

I agree it looks like the original box. I wonder if they put the ez steer parts in the original box (I don't think they will fit)? I wonder if they just left the original box and charged him for the ez steer box? If the clutch chatters it is because the "anti-chatter" rods are missing.

Charlie Stephens

 

Well just talked to my friend. It wasn't the shop that made that decision. It was his based on information he got from another friend of his. He actually ordered it directly from John and had his friend install it after the truck was delivered to him. His friend said the 22:1 ratio would help the steering issue. I think it may have made it worse based on the quality issues I read in other posts. So I can't put the blame on them for this one.

Well anyway. I need to try to make lemonade out of this lemon. I will post again when I have more information.

 

Sounds like he needs to make some new friends. HAMB is good for making new friends. Keep as much as possible posted instead of PM's or emails that way if a weird friend shows up they can be rooted out by the rest of the group. With that stock banger he might also want to make a few more new friends on fordbarn.com.

Charlie Stephens

 

Poor truck,
Hope you can get it sorted out for your friend.

 

Nimbykiller...you sould like the guy that went to the doctor and told him"I have this friend that has a leaking drip from his *****,what do you think is the problem? Old doctor said" I dunno.take "yout friend out and let me look at him"

 

Wbrw32. Thats funny. I know it sounds that way, but unfortunately its not in this case. I have absolutely no problem asking for help if i have screwed something up. Have done it many times. The onlu true way to learn in my books is to do it, make mistakes, and learn from them.

My friend is 76 years old and has been my father figure for better part of most of my life. I owe it to him to do what I can to get this thing running. He loves driving his cars but depends on others to help fix them. Often times he trusts the wrong people. As in this case.

 

Those disc brakes are overkill and have led down a path of complexity and mismatched parts that have made a good old truck undriveable. I would start with the idea that putting it all back to stock is the best approach. It's a lightweight vehicle with not a lot of power, so the OEM parts are well suited to it.

I suggest reading Dennis Lacy's ongoing thread about refurbishing everything in his '32 truck's front end. He has captured an amazing amount of detail in his text and photos. You will definitely learn something about how the stock system was engineered to work. In my opinion, that is all this old truck needs to drive like it should.

 

And after you get the steering sorted out, pop those hub caps off and run over them.

 

Yes, read Dennis's thread. At the very least it should give you a bit more edjumacation about stock '32 steering boxes. Maybe you can rescue the box in your buddy's truck with some stock parts.

One other thing to look at is the upper zerk on the driver's spindle. It seems to be directly behind the upper steering arm, and therefore may not have been lubed properly. Might need to do a bit of dis***embly of the arm and then get lots of grease in there.

 

Great info. I will look at that thread over my lunch hour.

 

Run like hell from an EZ Steer. Rebuild the original box then look at MT's Lincoln brake set up and get the front end back to something near stock geometry. The closer the centerline is to stock the easier it will steer. Lose those front tires. If you like 15's take a look at some 155/80 R 15 BFG's from Diamond back. I have them on 2 cars on 15X5 inch rims with a 3 inch back space and they steer easy. If you need 16's try 500/16 Stahl radials on 16X5 inch rims with the same 3 inch back space. JMO?

 

I have no idea what (if any) hot rod community you have in Gardner Kansas. Perhaps if any one in that area knows of a competent or just knowledgeable shop or individuals who can look this set up over and at least identify what real issues the truck has. The front disc brakes are dragging. Does the truck have front and rear residual valves in the brake lines? (the front brakes should have a 3lb inline valve to prevent the pads from dragging and the rears require a 10lb in line valve or better yet an adjustable residual valve to keep the rear shoes in proper position) Is it a disc/drum master cylinder? Has it got power brakes? Does the brake pedal rod to the master cylinder have any provision to adjust the length of that rod? (if the rod is too long, the brakes will drag, especially the front discs) In the beginning of the post you mentioned not only was it hard to steer but the wheel did not want to come back to center after turning. Is there any rear ward angle at all to the top of the front axle king pins? (i believe this is the castor angle and I believe it should be a least 5 or more degrees). Lots of unknowns here, hope you can get a competent person to look it over and get you going on the right path. BILL RINALDI

 

I am just ouside the kansas city metro area, so there must be a group out here I can talk to. I will look into it.

 

I crawled under there and looked at the brakes more. I am so confused.

Is there any reason that you would plumb together the front and rear reservoirs on a drum/disc master cylinder? This particular system has the two lines coming out of the m/c that go to two "T" blocks. Those "T" blocks are connected together by a brake line and then the other ends go out to the wheel positions. I have always been taught that these should be separated. There are no residual valves or a proportioning valve anywhere in the system. See the pic below.

I just found out that Pete and Jakes Hot Rod Parts is only 30 min from my house, so I am going over there to buy the residual valves and talk to them about the truck. I am sure someone over there has the knowledge to help get this truck back on the road safely. Will keep you updated.

 

That looks like a stupid ideer, and also stupid going to single over dual when you got the parts to do dual circuit.

I would split them again. And go drum brakes in front. And get the wheels back under the fenders. That is the main priority.

But I'm still puzzled about the back working E brake. More info on that?

Could it be some kind of linelock/launch setup build in the E break, push it forwards and the front brakes lock up for burn out and launch?

 

That red cap on what appears to be an electronic speedometer adapter is also not meant to be a permanent cap. It is solely for protection when when the part is in the box or on the shelf.

 

Be sure to get an overall plan before you start fixing problems one at a time. I hate to say it but my plan would involve throwing out a lot of stuff and starting over. It would be interesting to hear what others would recommend.

Charlie Stephens

 

Yeah, that's some goofy looking plumbing for sure. I would start by separating the front and rear and check it out from there. It looks like everything is right there to accomplish this. May not be pretty but enough to get it all checked out. The larger reservoir should be the front disks. Separate it and see if they work correctly. Once you get the system sorted, you can clean up the plumbing.

 

Oh boy...

 

Talking with Pete and Jakes would be an excellent idea but walk away after you talk. Don't leave a deposit or you are locked in with them and probably their recommended "solution". Consider them as input to help decide the final solution. Get several inputs including those from HAMB. Post what you find for comments. I don't think you should even buy the residual valves until you get a plan.

Charlie Stephens

 

In addition to calling Pete and Jakes shop that would probably lean towards a high tech solution you might call your local Early Ford V8 Club (email me if you need numbers) and see if they could recommend someone for a low tech solution. If the truck were mine I would go the low tech route. Early Ford or early Lincoln brakes and wire wheels (original or Kelsey's). I wonder if there is any chance you could recover some of the original parts that the first shop probably removed (and sold). It would be my guess that the original heavy ’32 axle was removed (worth about $500+) and replaced with a later one which might explain in part why the tires stick out under the front fenders. I wonder if the tires would rub the front fenders if you hit a small bump while going around a corner?


Charlie Stephens

 

We actually do have all of the original parts. Even the drum brakes. The axle is the original. Its the discs and these 1970 ford steel rims that have pushed the wheels out. Thanks for the info on the early Ford V8 club. I will message you my email so you can send it my way. I agree the early ford brake route may be better. I will talk to him about it and see what he says.

 

Yikes, what a mess.



If it was me I would:

Remove the disc brakes. Add early Ford hydraulic brakes and spindles. They bolt right on.

I do not know if the rear end is original but I ***ume it is with early ford hydraulic brakes? .

Re-plum th brake system. Keep front and rear seperate.

Add skinnier wheels and tires. You can get radials that look a lot like the originals.

Rebuild the original box, or better yet get ahold of neal @NealinCA and he can build you a bolt in Gemmer box. Steers 100x's better then what you have.

None of this solution above will be super cheap, but the truck as it sits is not worth much if the owner cannot enjoy it. Throw some good parts at it, make it a good driver. It will not be hard. I did all this to my 1933 Ford pickup and it is a blast to drive

 

Looking at the pics it appears the spindles are 1942-1948 Fords already, so Ford hydraulic brakes will simply bolt on. With a little work and some different parts I think it will all be fine, hopefully nothing else the shop did screwed it up

 

We all approach problems in a slightly different way. I would keep the '32 spindles and buy a $20 kit to install the hydraulic backing plates on the '32 spindles. There are some cheap kits out there, I would buy one from someone I trust like Richard Lacy at earlyv8@aol.com, (626) 338-2282. Richard is also an excellent source of information and parts for the Lincoln brakes.

Charlie Stephens

 

Better yet, if you can possibly "show" him the trucks on here that have been done right.
Shame he spent too much money on that quality of bad work, but lucky
he has you to get it all sorted out properly.
Those brake lines are quite the debacle.

 

This forum is awesome. I have so many ideas now. I think Charlie is right that I need to sit down with him and map out our plan of attack. He is out of town until friday night so I will talk to him on Saturday morning. Keep the good ideas coming. I am writing all of them down so we can talk about all of them.