Technical 32 rails…..original or repro’s

I doubt you'll see the same sort of bending over the rear axle on any 32's anymore. Nobody is driving them over railroad tracks or large potholes at full speed nowadays. And, the original bumpers over the rear axle were about a half inch of hard rubber. Most hot rodders use a thicker and softer bump stop now.

 

Well, if you can get a title matching the numbers on an original frame, thats a great place to start a build. If you don't have a matching title then it makes little difference whether you stamp some acceptable number on a new frame or restamp a number on a used frame. If someone put an original frame aside because of unacceptable condition in their mind, and replaced it with a new frame.....stamped the original frame numbers on it and used the original title to title the vehicle..........then what good is an original frame with no title when someone may already be using that number? There are all kinds of ways to twist this since cars and frames get moved about between states. You can get a new title for a VIN in some states. Would that mean there is a car in Kalifornia and another one in Ohio with the same VIN ? And those VINs stamped in frame rails are often illegible from collecting rust all those years. Its a whole lot easier to just get new frame rails for a reasonable price unless you are building a concours car and have unlimited resources.

 

I personally like the real deal bodies/frames etc. but have no problem with a mix of chassis & or parts, however, must admit when the real steel deal shows up, I gravitate in that direction first, always interesting to get the background as to where it came from who built it etc. My opinion has not changed much over the years if tastefully built, preserved, restored or hot rodded I like them all. A friend who had a medical related issue & totaled his show quality glass 32 3w accepted the stated value check & ordered a new build without bad feelings that a genie 32 was destroyed, perhaps an advantage to the kit cars.

 

Has anyone ever tested the metallurgy between original and repro?

 

BlueBear said you don't have to box them.

 

Mother Nature and the rough roads of yesteryear..............

Seriously though, even when someone uses a gennie original frame, they usually modify it with boxing and all kinds of different fabricated crossmembers, so unless someone is building a "restoration" of a car, I don't really see where a modified original is any more desirable than a scratchbuilt repop. If I had a choice between a typical used 32 Ford frame and a set of brand new repops........I would buy the new ones. I will be putting a Brookville body on them anyway. Now that I think about it, I don't think my 32 will actually have one single original 32 Ford component on it when its complete...........so why would I worry about the frame rails............the tecno-nostalgia buffs will already have plenty to curse me about.

 

The roadster in my avatar has an original 32 frame under it. I was about to use a set of repop rails to begin the project, when I received a call from a close friend's widow telling me of my friend's death. We had been great friends for over 30 years. I began driving down to his home and helping his widow dispose of the huge collection of hot rod parts he had collected over the years. He had collected lots of parts to build a 27 on a deuce frame. I knew which items he wanted to use and carefully set them aside because she wanted her grandson to build the project. There were 2 complete deuce frames and one had the 27 roadster body mocked up on it. The other on sat, resting on the passenger rail nearby. I told her that I would buy whichever one she didn't want. She told me to take the one laying on it's side. Not buy but have free for all I had done for her. My son and I thanked her profusely and headed home with our new frame. The frame means a great deal because of our friendship and because I was able to complete what he never could. Is it better than a good set of repop rails? I'm not sure, when I had the frame powder coated, left the pitting on the face of the rails to show that it was, indeed original. The pitting is light and poses no strength problem. Yes I was able to sail through the DMV because or the very visible VIN. The car has been on the road since 2009 and driving it doesn't matter whether it is an original frame. The thing to me is, that I fulfilled a dream that a dear late friend could never do. New quality or old quality is all the same. Enjoy the car use quality parts and assembly no matter where the roots lie.

 

Great story

 

One of the best repro's out there at one time well in the last Century actual was Dave Gales Just A Hobby Rails.
The radius and side indentation was spot on perfect. Another company in this Century with an excellent repro Deuce frame was Dearborn Deuce there radius was spot on perfect as well.
Ronnieroadster

 

I think they are what became the JW rails. I’ve used several pairs and found their shape to be really good. Although , they are made for boxing. Notched behind the front horns and when you add boxing they come to 2” wide. Still have 2 pairs

 

I used JW's rails for my build. I'll have to look at the receipt, but I believe there was an option to have all of the factory holes drilled into the rails. I did go for that option. I also bought the correct '32 frame blue print to make sure we had all of the factory holes, etc.

Correct about them being stamped for boxing. They needed to be cut down to remove that for my build.

Another detail that Zach Suhr did (he built my frame) was to add an indent to the front furtherest body mount hole. Repop rails just have a hole on the top edge of the rail, where on Ford rails, this hole stamping is concave. It's a little detail, but I'm glad Zach did that.

If, at the time, I could have found a nice set of '32 rails, I would have used them for sure. For my AV8 build, I was only using a K member. I used a '27 T rear and a Model A front, so I would have had to take apart most of an original complete frame anyway, so it didn't really matter to me as long as the rails looked correct.

The JW rails certainly do look correct.

 

In my world this is not nearly as important as the steel vs fiberglass body question. Whatever frame you have in inventory and paid for would likely be my choice.

 

^^^ yep. Not a fan of glass rails.

 

My belly laugh for this morning.

 

As long as they aren't fiberglass, I don't care.

 

Fibreglass rails were available. For that total fakeout.

 

I did say body- just to be clear…

 

That's always a funny anecdotal argument, and I've yet to see it accompanied by any scientific evidence that it's true.

Sure, Ford had made some advancements in metallurgy at the time, but steelmaking and understanding of steel properties has advanced a bit in the last 91 years. The funny part about this argument to me is the generic line that the originals are better than all repros. Do all repros use the same steel grade and heat treatments? That's a question I'm betting nobody knows the answer to, which makes the statement laughable at best and makes me skeptical of the basis of it.

I'm a metallurgist, I don't believe the statement that original 32 frames are far superior to modern steel. Simpler metallurgically? Likely. Easier to weld with good results? Very possible. Simply better? ...

That's the big question isn't it. Nobody I've ever seen make that claim that the originals are better has ever been able to point to any test results. I'd be happy to offer a metallurgical analysis of the results if they actually existed.

 

How about we send you some chunks and you do the tests?

 

Sounds like fodder for the Fordbarn!

 

To me a GOOD set of originals is more valuable that does not mean there better in quality or strength.
A good set of matching serial number rails to a original body is even more valuable. Much much more . It the real deal.

A crappy set of fixed, repaired , rusty , compromised , heavily modifed rails on a non matching non original repro body with numbers that no longer dos mean much dosent matter much to me .

There is a really rough 32 chassis on FB market place near here ( might be gone now) . One frame horn missing , heavy pitting.
At first I was thinking hmmm perfect for my non original body ( fiberglass) 27 build .
Then I thought why would I bother paying $2000 to get crap to have to fix then modify to fit for a fake 27 body with no other original ford parts other than maybe a 9" rear when I can get a set new rails for $700 or so that are better in every way?
And if I had good originals would I be willing to waste them by modifying them for some ratty Speedway class body with no doors ?? It would be a waste and I'd sell them to someone with a more fitting body were it might matter.

Now if I actually had a 32 body or even a original A or 27T I'd have considered the rails for a era build .

Would I pay a big premium for cherry original frame ?? Of course . I haven't found one in 20 years of looking that was not priced way way to high for anything I have to put on it

 

Yep…a friend who is a tool and die maker that worked for Tower Automotive in Milwaukee, was involved in that project! JW Rod Garage (Belgium Wisconsin) still sells them.

 

If I remember right, Andy Brito made them for a deuce roadster he built with a full tube frame and wanted an original look. A yellow car featured in Hot Rod or Street Rodder back in the dark ages I believe. It also had a twin tube axle and coil overs.

 

I remember that car, it had a Wankel engine, it might have been a Hot Rod Magazine project car. Steve Archer made ‘glass Deuce roadsters at the time and he did the ‘32 styled frame covers for the round tube chassis.

 

Yes that was a Hot Rod car. Must have been early 70's.
Other people have made glass rails as well, basically for covering box tube T-bucket type constructed frames. I'm thinking 70's - early 80's. Never really became a thing I'm pleased to say. Pretty much neutered by the availability of stamped steel repros I suspect.

 

There was a set of fiberglass rails on market place just a few days ago in the FB Market place . Advertised as wall art. wanted like $500 or something . Had they been $75 id have grabbed them for the bottom of a 27 T glass basket case or wall art.

 

I have seen those on FB market place was wondering how they were . There close enoght to go pick up set vs shipping $$$.

 

I made this with JW rails. Holes in the X member are belled.

 

Because that would cost me $3-4K out of my pocket?

The point was that it is a repeated statement that doesn't seem to be factually based.

 

Hmmmm, I wonder how much lighter and stronger a real set of composite frame rails might be. I'm thinking something like Kevlar maybe. Yes it would be expensive, but think how light a roadster could be........maybe even a Kevlar body as well.

Can anyone actually say that they know of a repop frame that ever failed ? If none ever failed then why the question about whether they are as good as an original frame. We do know that original frames did sometimes fail due to rough use ,bad roads, and too much HP. Thats why people started boxing them and strengthening them. Not knocking them, they held up well for the most part, but they weren't indestructable.