IT IS ALIVE!!!!! It started today! Only for a second but it was a legit start. I think with some playing it will run. Why I didn't get it actually running today is because after it started (which I almost got on video but the camera ran out of memory right before it started) I couldnt get the starter to engage anymore. All it did was make a clanging sound. It actually does this quite often but usually it turns over after a few tries. Tomorrow I will pull the starter and give it a good going through. Thanks everyone for your help, hopefully I will post a video tomorrow of it running. Ryland
Super sweet!!! It sure feels good, doesn't it? Best of luck with the starter refresh! I can't wait to see the video!
Fantastic! We knew you would get it. Sounds like the Bendix drive on the starter is sticky. Take it out, pull it apart, clean it all nice and clean the commutator. Or, just go start that motor as if it were me it would be hard to keep away from getting it going now tht you are this close.
Ryland, here is another theory, with all the ether you have been squirting through there, and possibly gas to you may have just washed the cylinders down. I would try it a little more before I added anymore oil in there. Glad you have coaxed some life from it. Sounds like you are just about to get there.
I pulled the starter off mine last night and bench tested it and it is dragging a fair bit. I'm off to a local guy that has been repairing starters and alternators for over 30 years so I am hoping that he can fix it up. 3spd, glad yours fired. I am sure by the end of the weekend it will be running smoothly. Gerry
I don't know how the 322's are compared to the 364's, but when I was doing a basic wiring set-up like the one you're using, my starter would not disengage, even with the engine running. It has to do with the wiring from the generator and the carb being hooked up with the starter for the floor-start function. But like I said, not sure if 322 used that function.
Sorry, no video yet. I spent all day playing with the starter. It just started raining but I might still go out and give starting it a go. The 322 does have the floor start but I plan on bypassing it. Does anyone know what the run post on the solenoid is for? Is it for the floor start system? As far as I can tell if I run both run and start from the solenoid to the cranking position on the key the stater should work fine without the floor start. Is this correct? Thanks, Ryland
I have a wiring manual for all cars from 50 to 56. I need to go lock the shop soon, so I will look in the book.
It shows a starter relay tied in with a accelerator switch...to control the S wire on the starter. So I don't see why you can't just jump from batt or S term on Ign switch, to S on Solenoid, to make it crank. Then on the other side of solenoid, it shows a term marked R which is what A chevy would have marked as I terminal. That just bypasses the coil resistor when cranking. So it goes from R on Sol, to the + side of coil. This diagram was stick shift trans
Hey 3spd, great to hear you got it to run. I remember going through the same thing with mine. What a great sound when it finally fired. As for the wiring for the floor switch, there will be two wires going to a switch on your carb. That is what engages the solenoid when you push the pedal down. If you want to use a push button start, undo the wires from the carb and run them to the push button. Should work fine that way.
Thanks F&J that is how I have it wired up now except with two switches instead of a key switch. Today I took the starter apart and cleaned and greased it but the drive gear on the starter is still hitting the flywheel when I try and crank the engine. From under the car I can see the gear hitting the flywheel and just not meshing with it. Occasionally it will mesh and turn the engine over but most the time it just clangs against the flywheel. The teeth on the flywheel have very little marring to speak of and I filed the the teeth on the drive gear so they should be fine. How freely should the drive gear when turned by hand? Mine is easy to turn but will only go as far as you push it; should it keep spinning? Thanks, Ryland
My wiring book does not show me what type of starter drive. Some drives ride on spiral grooves in the shaft, and then get shoved into the flywheel by the spinning action of the starter. Then others like Chevy, have a solenoid that jambs the gear in, while also making the electrical contact. A bendix has a one way clutch, so when the motor starts, the bendix can slip, if you don't let go of the starter button. Without seeing it, I don't know why yours is not going in all the way.
Ryland, sounds like you are getting enough current through to make the solenoid throw the the starter in, but not enough to motor the starter after it is engaged. If you are confident that you have not got a bad connection somewhere, and you are getting plenty of juice to it, then I would say you are probably losing it in either the solenoid itself, or somewhere in the starter. If you still have it off I would bench test it with jumpers from a known good battery and see if it will kick in and spin up good that way.
When looking up at the flywheel from the bottom with the sheet metal covers removed I can see the starter gear hitting the flywheel and not engaging. Once the gear engages all the way the motor turns over. I did ground test it and it engaged and spun very quickly, it made a nice whir sound and was just a blur. Thanks, Ryland
I will look at a 56 Olds starter today. No clue if it is anything like a 56 Buick. Just wondering why yours won't engage, so I will look.
On another note. Do you know where I can find outside door handles for my 56 Buick wagon? New or used. Any help wold be great. Cheers Mike
If yours looks like this solenoid setup with the lever? - The first thing is to know what's in there and how it works; the solenoid does two thigs. when it starts to pull the piston, it moves the gear towards the flywheel. But, it will not make an electrical connection to spin the starter armature UNTIL it the piston reaches the very front of the solenoid. How it makes the connection, is that it shoves a round copper contact to jump the main post to the post that goes to the case..which goes to the windings. so, as designed when new, the gear should be fully into the ring gear before the starter spins. if the starter spins before the gear is all the way in, then there is slop in the linkake or a worn yoke, or worn areas on the groove in the gear ass'y. Think of this as a typical throw out bearing and yoke, they work the same. One thing I wonder is if the yoke is not inside the correct groove, or jumped out? What I would do; Take out the small pin at the top of the linkage, take off the lower big terminal nut, take off the solenoid. Now work that yoke to check for travel or slop.
Ryland is your goal to start the 322 with your starter to see if the motor runs good? with all that cranking it must of heated up the insulation you might want to take the starter to a shop to have it checked out if it need parts nothing a good starting car that won't let you down on the road
The pinion gear on the starter should have little ramps (angles) at the end so that they spin into mesh with the flywheel teeth. I am not sure from the photos, but are the ends of the pinion gear teeth worn flat? If so, that is why they are not meshing with the flywheel. If this is the case you will eventually need a new starter drive, but for now maybe carefully grind or file the ramps back. If you do this you will be grinding through the surface hardening, so your modified gear (rebuilt ramps) will not have as long a life as the metal will be softer. But it will be enough for you to solve the no-start. Also polish that commutator and undercut the slots with a broken off/ground skinny end of a hack saw blade.
Sorry, I remeber you saying this earlier but I forgot it with all that has been talked about since then. Can you explain "undercut the slots" please? I'm not sure what you mean. I will try filing them for now and order a new drive so when the softer points do start acting up I can just replace it. What I posted a picture of is not what is in the starter now, that is the innards of the starter the Buick originally came with. Thanks, Ryland
It's the gaps between the copper parts of the armature, where the brushes run. They should be cut back with a ground down hacksaw blade to leave the copper standing proud. Most old workshop manuals show this. Mart. EDIT: found this on google images:: and what you are aiming for: nice square undercuts
Thanks, I did cleaned those grooves out with a small screw driver but I will go over it again with a hack saw blade. Thanks, Ryland
The starter has been re-cleaned, I under cut the stator and polished it as well as going over the brushes again and I ground the drive gear teeth back into ramps. The engine does seem to turn over a little quicker now but the starter still isn't engaging 100% of the time. I think the starter gear isn't turning easily enough . I tried spraying PB on it but it didn't loosen up at all. It turns smoothly and fairly easily now but I feel it could be looser and that would help it engage better. When it comes to starting it I have found it will only start with a fresh squirt of oil in each cylinder and after the first time it starts if I pull and clean the plugs (which have a fair amount of oil on them) it will not start again without more oil. I have only really started the engine twice so maybe with more starts it will regain compression and start without the oil. What do you think? Should I keep adding oil and starting it or do you think its not going to regain compression that way? Here is a video of the second start: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29xyoqXxs0Q Thanks, Ryland
Unless you have a bad connection somewhere, or you are just not making a good connection with the S wire jump; I'd say the solenoid is bad. It is close to staying running. The flames up through the carb might not be timing. I say that because I can hear at least one dead hole, when it is cranking. So, if an intake stem is rusty/gummy, and hanging up a bit, it will fire back through the carb. If it was me, I would not give up yet, before pulling the engine apart, especially if it is just sticking valves. I'd first triple check the static timing and hope the balancer rubber is OK and that the mark is still correct. Put a test light on the neg side of coil and ground the pointed end. Hand turn the motor clockwise coming up to #1 TDC compression stroke. The test light will light when the points open to fire. Look at the marks. If you think you've done the best you can with timing, now look into the carb problem. I would think it should have stayed running if the carb venturies where drawing fuel. Seems like it is close enough to running, you could almost keep it going with small squirts of carb cleaner spray with the red tube nozzle. I have run engines that way. Carb cleaner seems to work better than ether, when fighting a bad carb. Also, try different throttle settings, almost closed, or partly open, etc. You are close. I would not condemn the motor yet, until you've run it several times for 5 minutes each, but letting it get stone cold in between.
I think if you can get the starter sorted out you will be in a much better position. The starter sounds terrible. The starter has a solenoid. The solenoid pulls the pinion into mesh with the ring gear, and as it gets into position, the solenoid then completes a circuit that starts the starter motor spinning. listening to the various clankings in the video, it sounds like the solenoid is pulling the pinion in, but then only occasionally making the contact for the actual starter motor. See if the contact parts are dismantleable - if so, clean them to bright metal and carefully put it back together. Hopefully with a clean engagement and a good solid turnover you can then concentrate on the running rather than the starting. I also think you need to streamline your setup a bit, so there is not so much fiddling about. get one of those remote starter buttons, or improvise a proper switch so you can get it to turn over exactly when you want it. Make sure the battery cables and earth cables are in good condition, and the starter is earthing well to the engine. It seemed ages between spraying the starter fluid and actually cranking the motor. Good luck, you are pretty close now. Mart. PS. Wicked backfire - don't lean over the carb for God's sake.
I really don't think it is the solenoid; the clanking is the drive gear hitting the flywheel but not meshing. I had the starter on a momentary switch but I burnt the switch out so now I am touching the wire from the "S" terminal to the positive post. The fiddling around was me attaching the "R" wire from the solenoid to the positive post. I have another video of it running longer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFdetzhfFgo I'm not sure why it's not drawing fuel. One concern I have is I put some gas in the funnel and after about 5 minutes it had drained through; Is it just leaking through the jets into the engine? Ryland
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