skip the ether for now pour a little gas in the carb then start cranking if that works stop Don't pouring gas down a running motor for safety reasons fire sucks hook a rubber fuel line to the carb and lawnmower gas tank or what ever you have let gravity do the work, that way you can keep it running till the gas runs out i've done that in the past works good
You can see at the beginning for this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFdetzhfFgo video I pour gas into a funnel that is running down to the carburetor and in the next video I start the car on gas only.
I can't get that video to work. The screen says "Error ocurred, try again later" It's going somewhere meaning it must be flooding the intake. Next time you fill the funnel, look down the carb with the throttle open. If the needle is stuck open, you will see gas dribbling down inside. Pull the carb top. Check the needle for trash stuck in there. Test it by flipping it upside down and blow through the inlet hose; It should not leak at all. Then flip it upright, and you should be able to blow through it.
I don't see any fuel coming out with the funnel full. I used a flashlight and couldn't see anything. I emptied the funnel and took the top of the carb off and the bowl was full of gas so I am going to let it sit for a while and I'll see if the bowl empties. Thanks, Ryland
It won't, unless the carb is rotted through, and that is almost impossible. When a needle sticks open, the gas gets higher than the gasket seam level, then it flows out a vent pipe or wherever it can. Once the carb top is off, and gas is just sitting there, it's only way out, is uphill to the venturi area, by way of the mainjet passages. If it was a mid 60s up Qjet, yes those can leak through the bottom, because there are welch plugs that are supposed to seal machining passages.
I got two impressions from the first new video above. The first is that even though there is enough of a starter solenoid connection being made to thrust the pinion against the flywheel, there was not enough of a connection to spin the starter armature fast enough. Can you jump right from the battery + to the heavy terminal that feeds the brushes, bypassing the solenoid? The second is that once it fires it is running out of fuel. You need to continue spraying something into the carb throat once it catches. Just a little, fairly continuously, so that it stay alive longer. Once it idles long enough to splash the walls good for sealing, and drawing a good vacuum, the carb may kick in. If your carb is not doing its job, then as soon as that initial spray is gone you are out of fuel and the motor quits. It sounds like it is running out of fuel. Maybe get a helper to manage the wiring side of the world so that you can concentrate on spritzing something down the carb throat. I agree 1000% that ether (starting fluid) is NOT what you should be using. It is way too volatile - great momentary for a cold winter day, not good prolonged for trying to fuel an engine for running. I usually use gas in a spritzer bottle but of course you need good technique so that you do not make an ash out of yourself. I like the carb spray idea. From the second new video above, where it is running longer, if that were me I would have been pumping the throttle linkage like crazy to keep it running. That way the carb accelerator pump is doing the spritzing. I cannot tell from the video if you were doing that or not. It almost seemed like the throttle and choke were in a static position. You have to work the throttle, play with it, coax it into life. Hard for me to describe - it is a feel thing.
I am not quite sure I follow. What I get from this is you think the solenoid is not moving quick enough to cause the bendix to spin fast enough to make the gears mesh. What could I learn from bypassing the solenoid? Wouldn't that just make the starter motor spin in its retracted position? I will try running the engine keeping it alive with just the accelerator pump. Thanks, Ryland
If the starter gear is not spinning, all of the little ramps in the world will not let it engage. That would explain the 'clanging'. I suspect that the copper contacts inside the solenoid that transmit the power are coked up enough that they are good enough to throw out the gear, but not quite enough for the armature to spin well. Throwing out the gear takes less electricity than spinning the armature/cranking the motor over. If you can supply current right to the brushes, you will be augmenting this potentially poor connection. You would still need to engage the solenoid to throw out the gear. You would be adding a path for current to get to the armature. If you can open up the solenoid, I bet you find the contact surfaces burnt and covered with pits and carbon. Clean them up flat and shiny. Don't use sandpaper as the scratches are not good. Use something fine as the more polished the surface, the better. When you work the throttle linkage, there are a lot of different 'moves' that might be needed. Try different things and see how it reacts. For example, one scenario is that you get the motor 'running' by pumping the heck out of the throttle and then, while it is still running on the gas you just dumped in, you give full throttle and close the choke completely. Then before it dies you repeat. This can help to build a high enough 'suckage' factor for the motor to begin to draw gas thru the carb. There are a million variations, there is no right or wrong, just what works and what doesn't. Try different things and some will help and others, not. You will get it to run though. BTW expect backfires, they will occur, so keep your face clear.
I have a loose solenoid out of a 56 Olds, I almost think it might be a sealed up deal.. I will look today, as I could be wrong.
Here's another vote for a bad solenoid - in the video I hear what sounds like the starter gear engaging but not turning. If I remember those starters inside the solenoid there is a round metal disc that contacts a square coppper post inside the solenoid. Dissasemble the solenoid at the rear where the main battery cable attaches - it should be 2 small nuts plus the larger one holding the rear on. Inside you will see the disc and square post - clean the disc and turn the post 180 degrees. Another suggestion - stop using starting fluid; get a pump-type oil can, fill with gasoline and use that to prime the carb; you can pump small amounts of fuel into the carb to keep it running once it starts. I've seen engines run with this method without any carb - straight into the manifold. Also, have a fire extinquisher handy just in case. Finally, I don't think you have to oil the cylinders for each attempt to start - you've got enough compression to run on some of the cylinders, you really don't need all 8...............
Man, that is really close. I agree that it's a combo of the starter contacts and the carb not drawing fuel properly keeping it from easily starting and running. I would also caution you on the use of the "funnel" rig you have. I'd hate for that thing to ignite on a backfire and create more of a situation. Safety glasses, and a fire extinguisher should really be used when you are that close to the action. I found a way to revive an engine like this is to use a spray bottle filled with some gasoline. A spray-cleaner type bottle. It gives you control, and once it's kicking a little you can just mist the fuel spray into the carb throat and basically throttle it by lightly giving it fuel as it starts to die. After a time the carb may start to do its thing and run on its own. I don't like using ether, except on a 2-cycle or a diesel.
It does come apart like a typical GM solenoid. This one does not have an I terminal for the coil, so it is not Olds, but the same otherwise. To take off the cover: Take off the S terminal lock nut and plastic washer. Do the same on the big post that goes to the field windings. Now take out the two mounting screws. Gently tap those two studs through the cover, as you lift off the cover. First pic shows the black cover off. You can see that when the piston gets slammed all the way, the copper disc makes contact with the main batt cable post terminal and the big post terminal that goes into the starter housing to the fields. That connection makes the starter turn. next pic shows the burnt up side of the main battery terminal post. You can rotate that 180 degeees in the black cover, to end up with an unused connection point. Last pic shows it is now flipped 180. The other copper post cannot be flipped 180 because there is a wire welded on one side; but that post face usually does not get burnt as much. Need more help on the clanking noise before it starts to turn over. If the clanking is the gear going all the way into the flywheel, but not turning over, then I would think the copper disc and posts need filing. If the clunking is the starter gear not going in, then it could be one of two things? If the solenoid field coils are somewhat shorting out, then the solenoid might be intermittantly weak, and not strong enough to jamb the gear in? Or it could be that the one-way clutch is not slipping enough to allow the gear to slightly slip and align with the ring gear? I hate to see spending money on both a new solenoid and a new bendix. I am not sure at this point what to suggest, on a budget. A starter shop would likey replace both.
F & J, good write up, I was hoping someone with a donor would do one with the pictures, If you had not I was going to try to talk him through it, have give many of them a new lease on life that way.
One other thing that has not been looked at yet, is that there should be a big terminal post near the horn relay (if it's like an Olds) The main positive battery cable goes to that stud terminal, then a shorter cable feeds the starter. 2 weeks ago a hamber traced his starter problem to a bad connection there. He cleaned the cable ends and tightened.
I saw the video after i posted sure the funnel and gas line works there always a chance of fire if backfires you could bump it get burned or start other things on fire i did once the top of the motor and leaves under the car not good, after that i kept a extinguisher handy a sealed gas tank i by far the safer way to go
Sorry for my absence. I have been busy with another project that I need to finish by the 30th. I have had the solenoid apart twice and cleaned up all the contacts. I have also cleaned all the cables and connections. When the clanging noise is heard the starter gear is not meshing with the flywheel at all. I thought it was caused by the starter gear clutch not turning freely enough but that idea was dismissed earlier on this thread, I'm not entirely convinced that it is not the culprit. I am going to by a new bendix drive/starter gear assembly as I really think that is the problem. As for a fire extinguisher I have one right at my feet, I'd really rather this car not burning to a crisp. I have been starting it on gas alone recently. I will try it again without adding oil but misting in gas with a spray bottle. Thanks, Ryland
My approach to something like this is to walk away from it for a week or two. You can get so involved that you may be missing some obvious things. Also, it's better to get some fresh eyes and ears involved. Good luck in getting this thing started.
I have taken my starter off and took it to a guy that has been rebuilding them for 30 + years. When we took the starter apart, we found the insulation on the windings on the armature was breaking down. He had a used armature that was well worn but we used it to try the starter. What a difference!!! The starter spun over fast even under a load. But the used armature died before I could get it on the car. So I ordered a new armature from Wilson's for $75 Canadian. Everything else on the starter is like new so I am hoping this will be the solution to my starting problems. The armature will be in on Monday.
The Beast has risen! I put the rebuilt starter on the car today and it fired right up! The engine barely made a couple of turns before she came to life. I even took it around the block for a run. It is in need of a good tune up and brake job, but it runs. Now it is only easy things from here on out.
I was just getting ready to congratulate Ryland on getting his car going, at the last minute noticed that his thread had been hijacked. Any news Ryland?
I did not mean to hijack the thread, but I was having the same issues so I thought it would be okay to add my story. Sorry if I offended anyone.
This is a great thread, and glad to see you stuck with it... following the advice of a few helpful, patient veterans is paying off. There's a lesson there for others, methinks. My only suggestion is to focus on that starter first. You know you have starter issues that need to be addressed. Seems like struggling to get that motor running despite the known starter issues may be muddying the water here unnecessarily. With a strong fresh starter, you will have eliminated a key variable in this whole ordeal... then you can focus on ignition and fuel issues from a much better platform. I think GERRY's timely post is fuel for that fire... pun intended. Good luck, and keep the updates coming!
Thanks guys. I had many of the same issues with my Buick that 3SPD is having and that is why I posted in this thread. My starter was hitting the flywheel many of the times and when it did engage, it was not turning the engine fast enough to start. If the engine was warm and the starter did engage, then it would start. It was hit and miss. With the rebuilt starter, the car starts with just a little touch of the peddle. I just have to smooth out a rough idle in the car and then hopefully all the mechanical work is done on mine.
I think you're okay, I was going to suggest getting a pro-built starter which would make a balky car easier to get going. Nothin' like fighting a war on 2 fronts... a carb/fuel issue and a bum starter. Bob
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