Hello all, First post here and I figured I'd make it an interesting one. I'm working on put back the '57 Chevy together and it is time for the engine. When I pulled the engine out it was set up to run a 144 B&M mini blower with dual side draft webers, but the people who set it up had very little experience building this sort of engine and as a result I found a bent pushrod, sheared rocker stud and a flat can. It was a PITA to run with that set up, mainly due to the webers I believe. To compound the matter I nor any of my car buddies have any experience working with webers, and the one euro guy in town that we found to work on them was very expensive. So I think I have three options going forward with this engine. 1) replace the cam and valve springs and keep the webers and blower on the engine. This would be the cheapest option, but I'm not sure about the webers. 2) replace the cam and springs, keep the blower, but ditch the webers for a 4 barrel carb. I'm leaning towards this option, because I like the blower, and it seems to be a good compromise between cost and reliability. 3) ditch the blower and webers completely and run a N/A engine. My concern with this is that the compression ratio is only 8.5, so without the blower I'll be down on power without spending money on some pistons to bring the compression ratio back up. In the end what I need from this is reliability. It's not going to be a daily driver, but it's not just a show car either. 327 Double hump heads that have been ported to 2.02/1.6 B&M 144 mini blower Stock 57 rear end (car was an auto, so I believe that's a 3.55 ratio) TH350 If I keep the blower, I'm looking at a comp NX262H cam, but if I decide to go without the blower, I'm looking at going towards a L79 build. Any opinions on what route to go?
How come the study of weber carbs isn't included in the options ? NX designates nitrous grind but I don't see nitrous in your description. I'd also guess the 262 would be a bit small on a high stepping blown 327.
I think I'm going to look into the weber carbs once again. Maybe this time I'll be able to figure it out. I used the CamQuest free program from Comp to find that cam. It's a nitrous grind, but says it is suitable for small blowers as well.
A Weber is a very good carb, but a different breed of cats. Learn about them and they become fairly straight forward.
Those sidedraft Webers were usually used where hood clearance was an issue. The 'adaptor' has less than optimum flow, a conventional 4V carb will probably be worth a bit more power. I'd also look for a cam with a bit less overlap so you blow less boost out the exhaust...
I think you guys have convinced me to look into figuring out how to work with webers. They can't be too hard. While they may not have the optimum flow, I'm okay with. They already have some custom linkage built and have been gone through, so even if I sell them for market value, I won't get my money back out of them.
Hey isan42, I've been running a B&M 144 for over 25 yrs. and I love it! I've had it on a 350 in my motorhome, 383 in my bus for 120,000 miles and then in my '32 for 7 yrs. and 52,000 miles. I've run all sorts of cams, compression ratios, carbs and heads over the years. My best receipe to date is this 385 cu. in. (3.75 stroke x 4.040 bore) SBC, 262*-270* Extreme Energy Comp Cam with 110* lobe separation, dished pistons @ 8.6-1 cr, 185 Brodix street heads (2.02 - 1.6) and Edelbrock 750 carb, Petronics III ign. and 4# boost on mid-grade. It cranks out 465 hp and 490 ft. lbs at the crank and gets 20 mpg in the '32 @ 70 mph. @ 2100 rpm. This is my daily driver and it is as dependable as the day is long! Got any questions feel free to ask.
Hey. I'm a little disappointed, 7 post and still no picture, and nobody asked for them. :chok: Webers are cool little *******s, pain I the @$$ to those who doesn't do home work! But for those who will, they can behave like FI, look better and sound evil! Over here we run them on most stuff, and they work good. I run them on my small 121ci four banger, and make about a 120hp easy, drives well and keep up with modern traffic. No issues with carbs and set up. And this is a mild build and it ain't the carbs being the reason for the low power number, but they are the direct reason that I got a Wiiiiiddddeee power band, an awesome sound and desent fuel economy. That ain't something you here about webers. There is a book, ***tle is something with power tunning you weber, dell'orto's and solex. Damn good book, and tells you almost all you need to know about them. Down to jet sizes and what not. I would run them in a heartbeat, and webers and blower together sound awesome. Keep at it, lad. And add pictures!!
I am trying to understand a pair of Webbers and a hair drier sized blower bent a pushrod flattened the cam and sheared a rocker stud? Man I am sure going to have to rethink everything I have ever known about engines.
The one didn't course the other, it's the same reason the engine blew, and the webers don't work, nobody knew how to make them work, separate or together. Fix broken, adjust carb and Go baby, Go!
dont call it a hair dryer till you try one. i love MY 144 best 400 bucks i ever spent at a swap meet ITS FUN
Sweet plan, I'm shocked this many posts in no one has tried to convince you to start with a mr goodwrench 350 crate. Would love to hear that thing once it is done!
Hair dryer lol. You just spin the little ****er 3x faster than a 671 for the same out put. That really heat up the air too, excellent for drying hair and crossing the point of diminishing returns
They ain't that bad, on my Volvo they sit over the exhaust, never had an fire episode! I know they spit back, but that fixable. If they leak it's just like the bend rod, and all the other issues; you can't blame anybody from Italy/Spain, Smokey Yunick, B&M, anybody at Chevy, Mickey Thomson or any of the small block constructors! Only the guy who build it! And if a holly leaks it's gonna be just as bad!
******, a hair drier is a turbo, Pro-charger, etc. A 144 is just a mini "huffer". Either way, it's like getting a drink out of a fire hydrant... You'd better have 'er pointed in the right direction when you turn 'er on! lol
Porkn****** and Montana: you are saying the same thing. What does the numbers actually means? 142 or 144. They look the same and so does most other Roots styled blowers to me. Is it like 4-53 and 6-71, a GM and/or Detroit Diesel sizing for the 2 cycle diesel they came off off. What happendt to the OP? Did the he not like the advice we gave him?
Whoops, sorry for the lapse on my part. I've had my mind on more pressing things like getting the frame on some wheels so I can work on my daily driver in the garage. Its been sub freezing here for three weeks and I don't have a reliable heater. Here is a picture of the blower and carb set up. I can't seem to find one of it set up in the car... Also, here is the album for the rest of the build: https://plus.google.com/photos/113050790818415041233/albums/5804553360475826145?banner=pwa The people that put the engine together won't be allowed to get near the thing when I get finished. My grandfather bought the car new, and after a brief run as a show car with a custom interior and corvette engine in the 60s it sat off and on, with the plan being to put the hot new mini blower from B&M in it. My parents had it redone when I was in middle school as a surprise for my grandfather, and the guys that took on the job weren't the best at engine building. I think by the time we got the car back the engine had been rebuild 2-3 times. I wouldn't put the engine breaking on the blower, just on the knuckleheads that built the engine. The cam I pulled out of the engine was a Jasper Engines camshaft. I wasn't thrilled. I'm glad to read this! I've read as much as I could find about these little blowers, and I've never heard anyone talk about reliability. Good to know. I'm completely convinced that it's the carbs then, and I'm pretty sure I can figure out Webers. The main problem we (my dad, I got interested in the car when I decided to fix it properly and it hasn't ran since) had was starting the car. It wouldn't stay running until it got warmed up. If I hook up the manual chokes on the webers, will this solve the problem? The guys that put the engine together didn't know that webers had chokes, and I didn't either until I did some basic research.
That sounds and look like a full build! Good job so far! The biggest issues with webers, is getting a base line and tune from there. You can do the math from scratch, but you will need some charts to do it. Or if you can get son dyno time, you can get the best result. All my experience is with N/A, 4 bangers and Independent Runners. NOT the same math applies. Get the book and get cracking. The will do the same thing as a 4 bbl. but you have to adapt your thinking, you will have a cooler set up. Keep at it. lad. Rasmus Brynk Andersen, from Denmark.
I'm glad to read this! I've read as much as I could find about these little blowers, and I've never heard anyone talk about reliability. Good to know. I'm completely convinced that it's the carbs then, and I'm pretty sure I can figure out Webers. The main problem we (my dad, I got interested in the car when I decided to fix it properly and it hasn't ran since) had was starting the car. It wouldn't stay running until it got warmed up. If I hook up the manual chokes on the webers, will this solve the problem? The guys that put the engine together didn't know that webers had chokes, and I didn't either until I did some basic research.[/QUOTE] isan42, One word of caution... It will break parts because the rapid acceleration will suprise you when you nail it. Things go to pieces real fast. The guy I got it from had it on a brand new T-bucket build. The first time he took it out and nailed it, he flipped it. It will scare the Be-Jesus out of you!!! Another thing, DON'T EVER LET IT GO INTO A PINGING FRENZY. Back off and fix it, before you tear it up. (Ask me how I know) The only thing I ever did to the blower itself was put a set of viton lip seals in it shortly after I got it, because it buzzed the spline out on the input shaft. Back then B&M had an improvement with a shaft with longer spline area so I replaced it all at once. As far as the carburation goes, I've had Quadrajet, Holley and Edelbrock on it. You just tune it like a regular carburator. The blower doesn't know what carb is on it, the motor just needs the right amount of gas and air mixture. It will respond to a lot more fuel because of a lot more air going in, jet it accordingly. The idle circuit will be close to an NA motor, but the tip in and main jets will have to be quite a bit bigger. The Edelbrock on the 385" motor needs a .110" needle and seat for more inlet fuel flow, .113" primary mains, .116" secondary mains, a #7537 needle and orange springs. I don't use any boost reference either. I'm only using 4-5 lbs. boost so I can use mid-grade. If I know I'm going to beat on it I'll use premium. Also, timing is very critical!!! They don't like any more than about 24*-26* TOTAL. that means you will need to work the mechanical over to get only about 8*-10* advance on top of about 15*-16* initial. I also use vacuum advance of about 5*-6* for part throttle economy, but when you hit it, it all goes away. Yes, it is a little cold blooded, because of the long distance to the ports from the carb, but just give it time to warm up. You will need a choke and a high idle. I prefer a manual choke. I also use a 180* thermostat, 160* is too cold and makes the temp gage hunt up and down. I even noticed it gave me 5" more vacuum in the manifold (under the blower) for power brakes. Yeah! One last thing, a small motor will have more boost compared to a large motor with the same pulleys. You might have to make some adjustment here. Well, that's about all's there is to it. You just got 25 years of tuning secrets - for free... my pleasure.
Mont**** I didn't say hair drier I said hair drier sized. A couple of leaf blowers will make boost too, I wouldn't suggest that anyone run them but it has been done.
engine picture, taken from the link the OP provided: I was reading the specs for cam, trans, rearend, etc and thinking to myself "huh?"...then I saw it's a 4 door cruiser, not a hot rod, and it all makes sense. I would probably go with a 4bbl, but if you want to mess with the funky carbs and get them working, they should be fun and do fine. Probably don't need that fancy valve train with a stockish cam like that. Look at he RPM range that every part of the engine works at, and how well the drivetrain matches that.
isan42, One word of caution... It will break parts because the rapid acceleration will suprise you when you nail it. Things go to pieces real fast. The guy I got it from had it on a brand new T-bucket build. The first time he took it out and nailed it, he flipped it. It will scare the Be-Jesus out of you!!! Another thing, DON'T EVER LET IT GO INTO A PINGING FRENZY. Back off and fix it, before you tear it up. (Ask me how I know) The only thing I ever did to the blower itself was put a set of viton lip seals in it shortly after I got it, because it buzzed the spline out on the input shaft. Back then B&M had an improvement with a shaft with longer spline area so I replaced it all at once. As far as the carburation goes, I've had Quadrajet, Holley and Edelbrock on it. You just tune it like a regular carburator. The blower doesn't know what carb is on it, the motor just needs the right amount of gas and air mixture. It will respond to a lot more fuel because of a lot more air going in, jet it accordingly. The idle circuit will be close to an NA motor, but the tip in and main jets will have to be quite a bit bigger. The Edelbrock on the 385" motor needs a .110" needle and seat for more inlet fuel flow, .113" primary mains, .116" secondary mains, a #7537 needle and orange springs. I don't use any boost reference either. I'm only using 4-5 lbs. boost so I can use mid-grade. If I know I'm going to beat on it I'll use premium. Also, timing is very critical!!! They don't like any more than about 24*-26* TOTAL. that means you will need to work the mechanical over to get only about 8*-10* advance on top of about 15*-16* initial. I also use vacuum advance of about 5*-6* for part throttle economy, but when you hit it, it all goes away. Yes, it is a little cold blooded, because of the long distance to the ports from the carb, but just give it time to warm up. You will need a choke and a high idle. I prefer a manual choke. I also use a 180* thermostat, 160* is too cold and makes the temp gage hunt up and down. I even noticed it gave me 5" more vacuum in the manifold (under the blower) for power brakes. Yeah! One last thing, a small motor will have more boost compared to a large motor with the same pulleys. You might have to make some adjustment here. Well, that's about all's there is to it. You just got 25 years of tuning secrets - for free... my pleasure.[/QUOTE] I'm going to guess you're at about 5000 ft elevation and you have 8:1 compression. 5 psi of boost nets you 8.26 compression. Let's say you are at9:1 then 5 psi boost nets you 9.42 Hardly a heart attack ride there. Probably barely noticeable. At see level 9:1 and 5psi will get you 10.4 ish.
Regarding carbs, if you got em, use em. But it's also a matter of getting parts, and getting hands on help. Not all people are use to working with webers. And I can't figure out if they used them because they needed a little room under the hood or if they liked the look. But they wouldn't be a big let down performance vise! Rasmus Brynk Andersen, from Denmark.
I can pretty much guarantee that the are for wow factor more then performance. Granted I could be wrong. Holley used to make a dual blower setup with a brace of webers. The blowers were not stacked that were set up on a triangular manifold, opposing each other. I do not know how well they worked but in the '90s they were popular with the fairgrounds cruisers. These little blower setups were built with the same crowd in mind, its not a bad thing. they made people happy, and there is a lot to be said for cruising and grinning. My granddad used to say that if you have never had steak hot dogs will do just fine.
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