If you Zero decked the block for your new pistons then you'll be looking at 0.040 ish compressed height. If your new pistons are short. [{ ( aka - in the hole deeper than stock so you can cut the block 0.010)}] and you didn't zero deck you're fucking up no matter what you pick for a gasket.
I'd never consider a crate motor, it just never even crosses my mind. To me, that would be pretty much the same as walking into a dealership and just buying a car. I wouldn't feel like it was mine. Why in the hell would you wanna do that?
How far do plan on driving your project? Stop light bandit & a 30 mile radius w/stops between or much, much further like hours of 80+ interstate?
Exactly my thoughts. Especially as this being third generation. More pride building myself and passing down to my kids as 4th generation and they can have memories of it. Anyway, so is it carbon build up that I'm dealing with? I figured it was just rusted up water from lack of coolant.
290 HP Crate Motor with a warranty for 2K is a no brainer. Too many rebuild horror stories. Bottom line is can you rebuild a your 350 with 300 HP for 2K? Easy for others to bad mouth Crate Motors for no reason.
You know, I thought about it, your right, I'll go back and delete my posts, they don't really belong on here...
Is there a "double like" button. I wouldn't do a crate engine for myself, but I've seen how that is the best option for so many and said so. I know you aren't counting the cost of labor there George, but if you were to charge somebody going engine shop rates to build the exact same thing, what would it cost them? When a comparison of crate to rebuild is made with someone who's not familiar with engines the crate wins hands down everytime. When the cost of crate to rebuilding at a shop is made, the crate wins hands downeverytime. When a comparison of crate to rebuild is made with a full blooded gear head who wants his own, can build his own, enjoys the adventure, then the crate is not even a thought, its more of a joke.
as stated; a crate motor is a good dollar value, and there is a time and a place for them. but they really put the B in belly button. in my opinion ; S.B.C. stands for Small Block Chevrolet NOT Store Bought Crate.
I know two people with the GMPP 290HP crate engines. Both have blow-by issues. One started the issue upon initial start up so it was under warranty, but was a pain in the ass to get GM to cover it and they would not replace it. They only replaced piston rings in 2 cylinders. That was it. The other one is on my nephews 61 Bel Air and there is slight smoke coming from the right tailpipe. it is out of warranty and the engine probably has less than 5K on it. The car sat for 4 years due to an accident, but we took precautions (removed spark plugs, squirt oil in the cylinders, spun the oil pump to prelube, etc) before we started it. So IMO, crate engines may not be all peaches and cream....
I could have gone crate with my build and maybe saved some $$ overall. But I needed to change the pan to a front-sump and I wanted the thrill of doing it myself. If I had to do another one in the same shape, I would have bought a short block already done. I saw a few between $1400 and $1700 that were really nice. Dart also had some good deals on them.
No! No! No!! Keep it coming!! I like to here all aspects of building a engine!! I'm not comfortable with building my own so a crate motor sounds good to me, but I like the other side of building my own. I would do more of a idle to 5000 rpm motor for the street(56 belair,(street machine)but I like your post with all the ideas and specs. Pete
I guess the point is not seen here. I don't want a crate. I don't care if I get more out of a crate. If your kid comes to you with 2 grand and says "hey dad, let's build this together" you won't tell him to go buy a crate. You will do the best you can with stock and make changes. That's what I want. I want to add to the engine that my grandfather had put in this car and work on it with my kid.
No one is missing your point, Especially falconGeorge. There's a side discussion going on in the midst of your dilemma. Kinda like hanging in the garage with a bunch of people.
First things first. Sell the street master intake to someone else who doesn't know any better and find a decent intake. Hell even a stock aluminum late model truck intake is a better intake than the Edelbrock streetmaster. if you want decent headers that will fit your build constraints you are best off to build your own. Unless of course you have a real popular car body and the small block is a common motor to be put in the body/chassis of choice. if you want to build a small block on the cheap build a claimer motor. Go to the local roundy round supply and tell them you are building a claimer motor and give them your specs IE bore and etc. They will have the parts n pieces that you need to accomplish that. Your end result should be a mill that you are into for less that a grand or that you could afford to sell for less than a grand. heads now that is another story all together. if you want trick heads you are going to spend trick money. Aftermarket heads are not cheap, darts would be your cheapest and you are still going to have a grand+ into them when you are done. or just look around for a good set used heads and just plan on a valve grind in your budget.
Great thanks. I will end up spending a little more it sound like. If stock internals slow down my options of power, I guess I need to figure out pistons, cam, aluminum heads, intake and some headers to fit. Sounds like upgrading one thing is pointless if another thing doesn't let it do its job. I was hoping to keep stock pistons but if my compression is low, I might as well change it. Sounds like this project won't be finished by summer.
I had an attachment with my 350 as well. I had it in a stock car for 5 races that gave me a 4th and a 5th place finish. So I put it away for 31 years. Original plans were to just freshen up the heads (maybe upgraded iron heads), put a cam into it and go. I've built claimer motors before and do know how to do it cheap. Speedway has a lot of items for those. But nah.. got it apart and saw the low compression pistons, decoded the heads and tore the whole thing down. Brought the block, rods & pistons and crank to a good local builder. Right off the bat, the crank needed to be turned, the pistons were deemed as junk. We talked about doing a re-con on my rods. I looked into new rods and Scat had a nice set of rods for $250 (it pays to shop around). Block was bored .030 and is now being fitted with Speed Pro flat top pistons. I ran across a great deal on Summit for a Dart top end kit. Comes with 64 cc aluminum heads, matching 2-plane intake, all the hardware, gaskets, valve covers and spark plugs for $1505. I should have it early next week. Cam and lifters are Lunati, cam is a Voodoo 268/276 and I'm using 7/16" studs. Rockers are TDB, will talk with the builder next week on that and select a set. Without the carb (which I need) I'm coming close to $3400 with the machine shop work, which will be more if I have him do the lower end assembly. I could get a real nice crate from Ross for that much, $3800 at Speedway for a 420 HP unit. In the end I think I'm going to be happier choosing to do most of it myself. And I've learned a lot.
Dave Lewis wrote this book, shows lots of good options using stock stuff. it is the small block chevrolet interchange manual.
Every body thinks they can build a engine that runs great for little or nothing . When you actually talk to them you realize how little they really know about it. Then on the other hand when someone one needs an auto trans worked on they won't touch them, the act like it VooDoo or something. One of my favorite things to read on here and other forums is when the build is done and they post their why is this happening questions. I could tell stories all day long about the crap that was brought in the machine shop that had been butchered by the owner and his Car Craft reading friends.Most garage builds I see are assembled dirty ,poor combinations of parts and very disappionted owners. just my opinion I could be wrong.
^^^ I've seen engines assembled on a dirt floor and run strong, I've also seen them assembled in million dollar clean rooms and blow up on the dyno. It's the individual & that's it. I've seen a guy run a pool table shooting with a wet mop. The problem is people. People think A: I can do this, so why can't you. Or B: I can't do this so nobody else can either. Or C:if he can do it I can do it too. People don't know what is like to live with different skill sets or knowledge until they acquire it. On the same hand if they have it, they may not know what's it like to not have it.
First, tear down your short block so you can see what the bores look like. If they mic well, just plan on a light hone so the new rings will seat. If your bore is OK, use the stock pistons. Soak them in carb cleaner and use an old piston ring to clean the ring lands. You can wire wheel the tops, but use a fine strand wheel. Lightly file the sharp edge from the valve reliefs. Plan on boiling the block, new cam bearings, rod bearings, main bearings, crank polish, light cylinder hone, new timing chain, new oil pump. Youre doing a ring and bearing rebuild. All of this depends on how the bores check out. Vortec cylinder heads, tear them down, boil them, use stock valves, do the dirt reynolds mod listed earlier in the thread, it lets you use less costly springs and retainers. If your not comfortable doing that mod, buy beehive springs and retainers. Get a valve job, or lap in what you got, depends on how they look anf how long you want them to last. Plan on buying an edelbrock vortec intake, they're around used. This combo allows about 470-480 lift, use a hydraulic cam, duration depends how you want to use the car, weight etc. This is a solid 320-350 hp small block. I've done this rebuild many times if the short block checks out, this was before vortecs. Type of driving, vehicle weight, gear etc will determine duration and whether or not you need a stall. Also depends on carb. Anywhere from edelbrock 600 vacuum to holley 750 double pumper works here, depending on your plan. If the bores are worn, bore the next size up and get hypereutectic pistons. Not many street driven builds actually need forged pistons. But they are cool. If you wanna have a top of the line build, get a steel crank, buy pistons, resize or buy aftetmarket rods, have it bored balanced, line honed, decked. Aftermarket vortec style heads will allow you to cater your runner volume to intended rpm, all kinds of head choices in the $1500 range, Roller cam and associated valvetrain. If you're buying a crank and balancing anyway, might as well do a 383 stroker. All this is nice stuff, but not really needed if you have a decent short block in front of you and are shooting for mid 300 hp and 5500 rpm redline. Gotta decide if you want a driver or a 450 hp 7000 rpm monster.
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