I have a 351 cleveland that i picked up as a rebiult motor. I was told it has a high volume oil pump. My oil pressure is at 100 psi driving. The PCV valve is working as its supposed to but i blowing out the front and rear intake gaskets. I am planning to pull the pump and put in a stock one. Anyone have any ideas why else i would be building up so much crankcase pressure? I tried using only RTV and using the rubber gaskets with no RTV. No luck.
A HV oil pump would not deliver 100PSI. I suspect the byp*** has been deliberately disabled, maybe to show a healthy amount of pressure at idle for a worn engine. As for blowby, the OP has nothing to do with that. I suggest that this "rebuilt" engine is not really rebuilt. A leakdown test is in order. Even on old Clevelands spun over 6K RPM I have never had a problem with blowing out intake end seals.
Thanks for the info. What do you mean the byp*** has been disabled. Im not familiar with this block. Ive had the pan off and valve covers off its definately a fresh build. I have no blowby just extreme oil pressure and the intake gaskets blowing out. The plugs are all burning clean and no smoking what so ever. What else could cause exteme oil pressure if its not the pump. Also how do i check to see if the byp*** is disabled.
nice intro!!!!there is some great people here that can help you,but this is not just a site to help you!!!!this is a site with great info and great cars!!!take some time and read around.just about anything you need to know has been discussed on here!!!!by the way its probably the high pressure by-p*** isnt working!!good luck.
There are plenty of articles about the Cleveland's oiling system not least of which is one by Pat Ganahl in Ford Performance from S-A Design - doubtless out of print. Also Tom Monroe's 'How to rebuild your Ford V8' from HP books goes into this in depth. Without re-reading, as I recall, the problem is that the Cleveland has it's oiling priorities reversed and oils primarily to the bottom end, thereby starving the top end. Common practice was to plug the oil galley with a restrictor if I recall correctly, in order to force the oil to the top end. Not sure if this helps with your problem but definitely worth a read if you can get hold of a copy. You should find plenty of info on Pantera sites....
Are the valve covers equipped with functioning breathers? Crankcase pressure/ventilation problems are not related to oil pressure. Here's a link to a great thread in a Pantera site regarding the 351C oiling system. Check out the post by George Pence 'Cowboy From Hell' about 1/2 way down from the top. Keep in mind that most street going 351C motors are fine the way they left the factory and only need oiling system mods if you plan on regularly reving them past 6000RPM. http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5650045562/m/172102126
Got it backward, people restict oil to the top end. As was said this is only nessesary with prolonged high RPM running. Someone mave installed some high pressure springs in the pump. Try a standard pressure pump, most consider a HV as uneeded on a C.If you have an unobstructed way for air to get in & out you won't blow gaskets, usually a filtered breather on one valve cover & the PCV valve in the oil cap.
I had a buddy with a built 351C. We ended up having to put a restrictor kit in it to keep the bottom end from getting ate up (again)! If it is blowing out the front and rear intake seal, I am with BigChief in thinking that the crankcase isn't being ventilated very well. Perhaps a ventilated oil fill cap might help a little, but a PCV system is a must.
Oil pressure and crankcase pressure are two totally different things. Sounds like you have separate problems that don't have anything to do with each other. As mentioned above, you may have a byp*** issue. Sounds like someone has been playing with the oil system. I've had HV pumps in Cleveland engines before, none of them had anywhere near that kind of pressure. Blowing the intake gaskets out is a result of not enough crankcase ventilation. Pcv valves are not enough for most modified engines. Sounds like you need a good set of valve cover breathers.
I went to pull the plug to drain the oil so i could take out the high volume oil pump and the first thing to flow out was water, so i did a compression check and had in the 120,s on most but one that was 89 and one at 110. Im going to change head gaskets and see were im at.
umm its usually a bad sign when water comes out of the oilpan before the oil i think id go hunt down the guy who sold you the engine
Take a close look in the bores for splits too. They are thin castings and notorius for being marginal even at .030" over bore. I hydraulic'd a nice '70 4V motor this way.
First- oil pressure will NOT blow out your end seals on the intake. Second-Water in the oil does indicate a blown head gasket or split cylinder wall as a rule Third- Clevelands have a ****py block and at .030 they can and will split the cylinder and most machine shops will sonic test a c prior to boreing so you may need a sleeve. Fourth- leave the oil pump alone and be glad you have good oil pressure because when its broken in it most likely will be in the 50-65# range.
I put in a lot of sleeves in Clevelands back when guys were racing them. Seemed like anytime there was water in a cyl or in the oil it turned out to be a cracked cyl.
I'm thinking the water in the oiling system is turning to steam and pressure is pushing the gaskets out.
Thanks for all the info. I pulled the heads and the motor has alot of miles on it. The guy ripped me off saying it was rebuilt. I should have done a compression test before buying it. I had one cylinder that was 89 and one 109 the rest around 130.
My 61 Galaxie had a freshly rebuilt motor too. Its a 223. I bought the car to put my Cleveland in. I knew the motor wasnt rbuilt because the gaskets just didnt look right. When I discovered for certain the motor was not as advertised I went back to the guy. He told me F/O. I just laughed. The car was real clean and the price was right.
I got the motor all toghether. Its got good compression now. I also put a stock oil pump in. Motors running strong but i still have excessive oil pressure. Its litterally coming out of the breather. Any ideas why so much oil pressure.
repeat after me,,,, excessive oil pressure has nothing to do with oil coming out the breathers or blowing intake seals,,, excessive oil pressure has nothing to do with oil coming out the breathers or blowing intake seals,,, excessive oil pressure has nothing to do with oil coming out the breathers or blowing intake seals,,, excessive oil pressure has nothing to do with oil coming out the breathers or blowing intake seals. have you tried a different oil pressure gauge to see if your high pressure is really high pressure? as for the oil coming out of your breathers, do they have baffles? is your pcv system up to snuff? are the drainbacks in the heads clear?
I ran 351-C's for years in my dirt cars. Ford Motorsport sold both a high pressure oil pump spring and an oil restrictor kit to help the Cleveland's oiling system for high performance and racing activities. The oil pump spring would raise the cold pressure to over 100#'s. The restrictor kits were installed into the oil p***ages above the #2, #3 and #4 main bearings. They are installed by drilling the oil p***ages and tapping the hole then installing special set screws that have small holes drilled into them (.005 IIRC)... Your engine may have had this modification done... but, as was said before, oil pressure and crankcase pressure are not related. If you have too much oil on the top end you may need to restrict the oil flow to the top end... but this usually is only needed with high RPM use... is this engine used on the street?
Thanks for the replys. When i bought the motor all the breather holes were sealed over. I reopened them and installed breathers. I completly forgor about baffles. The motor has stock valve covers and the rockers look like they are very close to the covers. Not sure how to do baffles for the breathers. Ill also throw a new oil pressure guage in to see were that one reads.
The Jalopy Journal
