I had the body all braced well, the doors were ligned up perfect( but not tacked shut, the body mounts were all done with the proper rubbers installed and bolts snugged down, and when I welded the floor all together last night the door gaps went to shit!!! Man was I pissed. I kept cooling the welds, skipping around and going slow. Dont know what happened. Now I want to realign the doors before I continue on the trunk floor. The right door gap is tight top to bottom on the B pillar end good gap in the A pillar. The left door is low at the B biller with a decent gap top to bottom at the B pillar but tight at the top on the hinge pillar. I want to try and shim the body mounts to move the gaps around but dont know where to start. Can someone point me in the right direction?
Oh, wow. If the car's moving around that much, I wonder if you'll have to tack some X-bracing inside the car to stiffen the entire body up?
Advice on a problem such as yours is tough but the problem isn't un-common. Sounds like you had things fitting at first but lost it while welding. Prosess is generally the problem. Not knowing what you actually did makes it difficult to give advice. Don't start cutting it apart yet. My first advice would to have not put the rubber mounts in. Bolt the floor solid to the frame and if you needed to shim use metal ones. Also plug welds are a must before line welds. These are learned tekneeks. Also weld heat and wire size contruibute to shrinkage and closing of the gaps. There is no guarentee that welding the doors in would have stopped the body from pulling together.Bottom line is, you have to fine the stress point you created and releas it. Not necessarly cut it all loose. The Wizzard
Born2late, what Pist-n-Broke suggested is right on. I have had simular experiences thru the years. I would pull the body back off and level the frame first so to make sure its not in some kind of strain. When you place the body back down (with no body mounts) you may be able to see where it lifted or pulled. And when you start to bolt the body down you can "feel" the difference from side to side to find that tweeked area. Then do the typical xy measurements from one a piller to the next... shim and then do the b piller. Take you time and you should be able to pull her back in within 1/8. Thats a 1/16 on each side. Hope this helps. ------------------------------------------ "OPOSSUM BENDERS" Central Missouri Chapter
On the side where it has good line on A seam you can actually open up the door to quarter line enough by using a 2 foot long peice of native lumber and a porta power. block the opposite side with a 2x4 that is three feet long -place it vertically at door quarter line on opposite side and actually push the quarters apart about 1/2" or so then release this will open the tight line on the side where its pinched. then you can experiment with shims at the bolt that is at front of door openings and also the bolt that is directly at rear of door opening. on the side that is tight at topyou would need more shims at front bolt of Cowl and less at the front bolt near door to cowl line[understand?]this would lower the door at its rear seam. and reverse that process to raise it at rear of door.also if you have done some real damage you can actually tweak it apart thru door opening [front to back with the same two boards and the porta power. go REAL SLOW and carefully -just a 1/4" or so past where you think is enough and stop. it will then rebound some. you'll just have to experiment some to get it back.
As advised by choprods, portapower's can work wonders! It's like having the ultimate B.F.H. you just gotta know where to wack it. When movin shit around remember, for every action theres an equal re-action. If it was correct when you started, to re-correct it you Must un-do what has changed.The correct way to remove a wrinkle is to reverse what caused it exactly the way it happened. Metal is like a sack of marbles, you can change the shape but not the volumn. On the flip side I've actually seen people change the shape of doors to fit the hole. What works for you? The Wizzard
Excellent advice guys. Should I do the pushing/pulling/shimming with the X bracing still in the car or cut in out and see what my final gaps are without it?
I was thinking about this. Do you guys think that the deliberate "cooling" of the welds could have aggravated the problem? Sort of like quickly cooling a heated area in heat-shrinking?
FWIW. I used plug welds throughout. Spaced about 2 inches apart along the rocker tops, the trans tunnel flange (that was welded in first as a backbone to fab from for the flats of the floor) and the along the inner rocker structure in the quarter panel area. I let the welds cool naturally till the red was gone then hit them with a damp rag (to keep em from getting brittle from cooling to fast from red hot). Where the seams from section to section came together (crossways) I rolled a step flange in the panels to make them even/y overlap and skip welded them every 3 inches or so. I think I will weld in the trunk floor with the bracing in, and see what happens. If it doesn't change any more, I will cut the temp. bracing out and see what happens. Maybe it will magically return to perfect gaps!!! It will be a Christmas Miracle!!!!!
OK,OK,I'm with you now.It doesn't sound like your just hacking your way through this project. The steps you described are what I would have done in the begining. So where did it go wrong? We all learn that a gap is where shrinkage comes from so a water tight fit is a must (you know, like a Beavers ass) So, did you de-burr all the plug holes prior to clamping in place? What method of clamping did you use? Remember to fit, fit and re-fit as you go. This is a door opening so use the door your going to install to constantly check as you go. When the hole shrinks you'll know where the problem is at the time and you can correct it then instead of getting so far along you don't know where to go. Then there is the water issue. I never use it! (Unless in Vo) You have two pannels laying on top of each other.They are bare metal. You have just started what your trying to fix all over again. Use the blow nozzle on you air hose, No new rust. Brittle welds are not caused by cooling to fast. Use proper wire and shilding gass and heat range for the material your welding and no problem. It's an imperfict Sience but arn't we having fun? The Wizzard
This has been covered well, but I'll add 2 ideas. 1. I cool welds with compressed air. Works great, and is more controllable than water, and cleaner. 2. When you adjust doors, hoods ect., take out the latch or the striker. Get your fit first, then put in the latch, and adjust it.
Ok air cooling instead of water, got it. I use weldthrough primer between all overlaping panels and any place I can't get paint to later so rust from the cooling water is not an issue. The latches are/were out--bearclaws being added later after everything is re-gapped. Saturday its shims and experimenting before I put the porta power to it. I'll let ya know what fixes it. I am not cutting this f'er apart. Its way to pretty now. I even threw the seat in and "took it for a ride" (aka -make motor sounds and drink a beer). C'mon weve all done it!!!
One point that can be made here is the fact that early cars[Fords] have some stress in them even when unaltered. I mean that when you cut a top off to chop it you will encounter a situation where it ranges from no movement at all to the thing jumping 3/4" immediately as you cut the last post holding the top on to the lower part of body. iT VARIES WILDLY SO THER IS NO TELLING YOURS MAY HAVE BEEN PRESTRESSED -BEFORE YOU STARTED! [I have seen it] many times....
Isn't that why they recommend installing bracing before a chop? Shouldn't this '39 also have had additional X bracing for similar reasons?
Check the "what did you get done this weekend post" the followup to this is in my post. Thanks again for all the imput.
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