The dowel pins need only be tall enough to keep the head gaskets from falling on the floor while you are putting the head on, and to keep the heads from falling on your feet when putting the bolts in. They need not be any taller than that.
Heads are at machine shop. He’s gonna check flatness, mag them and pressure test. Head bolt holes are blind. I cleaned them real good and found all have bottom out scratches or marks at the bottom of the holes. So this could have really messed up the torque if they are in fact bottoming out. Once the heads come back I’ll take measurements and check if these bolts are a little long. I don’t know too much history on the motor so maybe heads were shaved or block was cleaned up?? I dug through my text messages and found the guy who built it. Tom Sauter out of Arizona. Left him a voicemail. Other than that the block and bore holes look good.
My stock of head bolts measures out at: Long: 7.325" Short: 6.755" If you are about there, you are good on the bolts. If you suspect that they are bottoming out, DO NOT grind them. It generates too much heat. Get some 1/2" hardened washers, and put one under each bolt head. https://www.mcmaster.com/90377A132/ These are 0.060" to 0.090" thick, and will take care of even a hefty cut off of both the block and heads.
If you check the block deck surfaces yourself, don't just check them straight front to back. Check them diagonally, from corner to corner as well.
Awesome thanks for the link and all the info. I’ll get washers. I have a mix of short and long. Is that right?
Gimpyshotrods and 73RR are correct, do not grind the stock bolts. Were it me before using washers I'd get a full set of Studs. Just makes everything easier all the way around.
Yeah, there are two lengths of head bolts on each head. One row is short, the other is long. Long is on the exhaust side.
I use studs wherever possible. For a naturally aspirated street engine, bolts are fine, plus he can get the washers for cheap. I have my fingers crossed for him that he won't need a sleeve, sleeves, or a head or two.
The loose head side gasket doesn’t seem to have any ridging like it wasn’t compressed all the way. Small ridging on the other side.
In that last picture, what about that indentation below the bolt hole that looks like it was blocking a hole in the head and/or block?
Claymart's comment. There’s 2 of of those on each gasket. Looks like they are meant to be there, or ….. could be the wrong gaskets for the heads
I see what you're saying. Looks like maybe some "knock-outs" that are opened for some applications and sealed off for others. Hard to say without seeing the mating surfaces of the block and heads.
This head came off of an engine that had not been apart.. You can see that those are cooling p***ages, and that they had holes there. Here's a better view before I started cleaning: Now, these are 354 heads, but I cannot see why there would be blocked ports on 392 heads. They are not blind on the block. It just would not make sense to delete coolant p***ages on a substantially identical engine. I will try to find a picture.
When I was in college and took shop,we had a sbf that the poor guy took apart a number of times before somebody figured out the heads had been shaved too much and the head bolts were bottomed out before it clamped the heads and now I think about it we had a buick also.
The 392 heads have the holes too. These cannot be the correct gaskets. If Chrysler put the holes in the heads, there was a reason. They are in the block, too.
Getting back to the block dowels possibly holding the head from getting a proper torque set I think I'd set that head on the block without a gasket and just snug up the headbolts and see if you can slide any feeler gauge shim in between the block and head. I would want the head making full contact to the block at that point.
I don't want to open a fresh set of head gaskets to compare, because I want to keep them clean. Maybe @73RR has a set out. From the interwebs, it appears that there are sets with these ports blocked. I never paid attention. Maybe there was a reason for this. I cannot say. What I can say is that they were not blocked on the fresh-off heads I posted pictures of.
I thought I had a fresh set for the one I have in pieces to look at but must have already used them. I can say I don't remember them being blocked. In fact, I think all the water p***ages in the gasket also have a tin compression ring on them.
Along with the dowel situation, and in reference to the bolts not compressing fully as has been suggested, have all the threaded holes been inspected for compacted debris in the bottom? A correct size drill in a cordless drill run in low range should be able to clean them out, or at least confirm they’re clean.
S ya the fire ring looks like it hasn’t been compressed. in reference to those indents on the gasket... the block has holes to match the gasket, but the heads do not. The heads have the same hole blocked in the same location on both heads. It didn’t appear to have ever been machined. I don’t have access to the heads right now to take a photo.
I think so too. I am looking at pictures and alternately seeing the holes there, and not there. Mostly they are there on copper gaskets.
So my block has these water p***age holes, but my heads do not. My gaskets do not have the holes. Local auto parts has 1 felpro gasket in stock so I could compare . The new gaskets also do not have the holes.
No tin around the old Best brand or new Felpro. only thing I can think is they made different options and these heads were not original to this block?? Otherwise why would the gaskets have the holes blocked??
Bore scoped holes, then cleaned them out. That’s when I found the scratch mark from the bolt down at the bottom.
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