Ok here we go, I have been reading all the great advice that is offered on this site and have been making a to do list for things or plans I want for the 29 model A I recently picked up. After looking at a ton of photos on here, i have for some reason really focused in on a 394 Olds sky rocket with the horse and torque that they came with from factory specs. I know that the 394 is a 600+ pound moter without a ******, so in the real world......would I gain anything by cutting back to a 303 or a 324 rocket? As far as cost and ease of parts, from what I have seen about the 394 the weight is not the only thing that adds up, is there much differance in price choosing a smaller rocket to build and add some dress up parts to make them appealing to the eye? I am not against running a nailhead in it either, but when it comes to a 401....compared to a 394, is there much differance in weight and parts prices and parts availability? When it comes to side by side comparrison with a 394 rocket and a 401 nailhead......which one in your mind is a better way to go? I had also really focused on the 371 rocket.....virtually the same I believe as the 394, but running accross a J2 in a model a to me just has that WOW factor.....but then all of the above do as well and I found out my dad has a J2 setup that can be available for this setup. As far as the back half goes, when it comes to rears is just as easy and simple to just head right for the ford 9" or what other options do you recomend with the 394 having 325 horse and 440 on the torque end of it? My plan for the front is the traditional 4" drop, but with that big rocket will split wishbones be enough, or what is the ideal way to go........and I know there is the mustang II option, but that intrests me none, trying to keep a somewhat lost in time sort of build. I have probably answered the few questions a 100 times in my head, but just looking for that outside looking in advice from any of the knowledgeable people that are out there......I appreciate the input!!!
Thanks for the heads up Tony, I had been looking at a bunch of the photos of what you have and very impressive......to say the least!! Will get in touch with you with my rocket needs.......thanks, Bryan
If you have the tripower with correct carbs, I'd settle for a 371 to fit the intake. Yes, you could machine the J2 intake to fit a 324, but why not go 371. Grab the rear end from the 57-up 371 parts car if you find one. They are wide, but it can be used if you don't use deep dish wheels. If you had a 32, you can use a F-100 steering box without having to buy a starter changeover setup. Model is narrower, so plan ahead for the steering
Thanks for the info, a buddy of mine had a 58 olds rear in his GTO and I know they are suppose to be pretty tough rears! I was curious about the 394, because the guy I talked to here in town that has it said it was in a 65 olds and has me wondering.....because didn't the 394 exist from 60-63....or close to that? With what I have read, either one will pull that car and them some.
In a light car like an A sedan unless you are doing some serious racing the slim jim will hold up fine. That said a slant pan hydro is also pretty slick. That is what I am putting behind mine. Tony has speed parts that no one knows still exist. I have U-Weld intake kits available for your 394 if you decide you want to go totally old school and weld up your own. Our design is pulled from an original U-Fab intake for olds. Sorry for the shamless plug. The only Rocket engine I have ever run in one of my own vehicles is a 394. They are excellent motors. Not to take away from the older little brother of the last real rocket. Lumps of torque. You need to take into consideration that the 394 is a tall deck, if the wider configuration is going to be a problem for you. If it were me I would run the one that I could lay my hands on all of them are good motor to put in an old ford.
By far Olds engines are my all time favorite, and I am using a 64 394 in my next project, a Model A rpu. The main obstacles to overcome is the length (as compared to a sbc) and the starter being on the drivers side. I am using a starter change over bellhousing and a Bendtsens adapter to mate it to a TH350 transmission. I considered using a 59 dual path transmission or the slim jim that came with the 64 engine , but the cost of having either gone through and the fact I didn't want to get 500 miles from home and have a transmission few could fix made me decide to go with the more common TH350. Don
Thanks for the great info, it is much appreciated!! I talked with the guy who has the car and it sounds like a gem......not, he said it has been sitting a long time and has sank in pretty good, so much that his tractor wouldn't hardly move it. So I guess we will see what's there and bottom price, bit he told me on phone he wanted $650......and I have seen original runners on here for that or close to it, so if it's a rusted up anchor right now, that seems a little high.....and yea, I realize they don't make them anymore, but seems for that price a guy should be able to get a block and some useable parts? I've seen a few recent ones on here that were that price times three, but rebuilt with good parts.....better way to go from my view because I know a rebuild kit is $1600 and change and that's no machine work tossed in yet. By the way, that picture looks great of the rpu with the motor in it!!
I had a 394 for a while in my last car, a 303 in my current car and a 324 and 371 in my two project cars had a '57 Ford 9" behind the 394, using a late '60s Bronco 9" behind the (blown) 303 a quickchange behind the 324 and a '57 Olds rear with '59 gears behind the (blown) 371 all have stick transmissions, '50 Olds, '37 Lasalle and Muncie respectively if you believe bigger is better than the 394 will confirm it if you have a particular style or era you want to build to then that would help make your choice easier. core motors, (like the sunk in the mud one you describe might be) should be a lot less than $650
I agree with Paul, $ 650 for a core/unknown condition motor is a little steep. The other issue with playing with Olds engines (or Hemis, Buicks, etc) is that compared to building a sbc the cost is quite a bit higher. I have over $ 3500 in machine work and parts in mine and it is just basically a stock rebuild with a cam and some carbs. There is one other issue to overcome with the Olds engine I forgot to mention. From the factory the motor mount configuration is backwards of the majority of American cars out there. Olds has one mount on the front of the engine and two on the bellhousing. Most cars have two on the sides of the engine and one at the tailshaft. Goatroper (who knows his stuff on these) can probably confirm that "some" Olds engines can use an aftermarket set of motor mounts, like Hurst made, to convert the engine to two side type mounts. But that ended in the early 60's. My engine has a different bolt pattern up front than the earlier ones, so I can't use the mounts that everyone advertises as 49-64, even though my engine IS a 64. I had a 59 engine that did have the 49 up pattern, but my belief is that the 63's might have been the end of the line and then the block changed. I might be corrected on that though. Don
I am with Paul and Don on the price. I am into my 394 less than a grand with the gasket kit and mine has real history. That said I saw a stuck 394 with some neat dress up pieces got for over a grand last year. Prices seem to be all over the board on them. I guess you just have to be in the right place at the right time. I would give it a good look and see what I was in for if it rolls over 650 may not be a bad price. Don I know that someone already said it but the big ol pig in that RPU is as sweet as they come friend. I don't know what you have inside of it but even stock in that little truck it should be a hand full.
394 engines were available in 59-64 full size Oldsmobiles. The 59 and 60 371's were derived from the 394 block and as mentioned have a different deck height than the 57-58 Oldsmobile 371's, hence the J2 will not fit the 59-60 371's and all 394s without some machine work or spacers for intake manifold. My vote goes to the slant pan 55-56 dual range hydros. DC hydros are limited but with a very light car they should do just fine too. Just remember to counterbalance the hydro flywheel and the crank will need to be drilled out for a pilot bushing. Rockets, nailheads, both have their pros and cons, but are making big comebacks!
I had already figured that 650 was out of line, the original ad said.... 66 olds 394 skyrockt original in car $650.......so the gl*** half full side of me thought, hmmm, 650 for a runner....not to bad! But with the two calls I have made it just gets better.....ha not putting anyone down by any means, but he is one of those guys that always has a problem and with what he's told me....there really isn't a big deal, first off there was a tree or two he had to cut down so he could pull the car out.....holy ****, the way he made it sound as if he had to log off 40 acres, warning #1 to self, if your using a chain saw in the woods to take down trees instead of snapping off a few twigs.....she's probably a basket case!! Warning #2 to self.....if you have to cut hay/mow the gr*** down to get to the trees and when you hook your tractor to it and it will hardly move because it's sunk......I really hope he was pulling with his lawn tractor because anything bigger and it's a no go.......probably a very good sign to let that one float on by and when he explains all the buildings on property and trailer house as "SH!T"........do you really think it's a find, haha, hope you got a good laugh cause I did! So in reading a few of the posts on here and using a 394 in my sedan......can I just compare that to taking the 250 Merc off my b*** boat and putting it on a rubber raft? As for the machine work and rebuilding it being in the $3500+ range and not as cheap as a SBC......I think I would pay $3500 just so I didn't have to have a SBC, nothing wrong with them, just like the rockets with the nostalgia and the looks and already kind of had a number dialed in around that range. My plans are to run car as a hiboy, so as far as fit goes shouldn't have alot in the way other than the firewall and steering box......you guys bring up some great points on fit and function and everything else!!! So if the 394 sinks away, does the 371 with J2 setup still have the wow to it, I think it should as any of them rockets do. I was scrolling through the other night and saw a thread on here where a guy came across a 371 J2 set up and dropped it in his RPU and after reading it all and come to find out it was a factory J2r set up with the dimpled valve covers, I could hardly sleep thinking of it.....now that's a find!!
I have found that some folks exaggerate to cover for laziness. maybe it is not as bad as one might think. I would give it a look and see what it is really all about. But yes a J2 is always as good a find as any in my book. I let one get away a couple of years ago and still wish I had just bit the bullet and drove down south to get it. I think that one reason to use an olds over a traditionaly bult SBC is just that it is different or at least it is different in the world we live in today. We are astarting to see more of them being used so they are starting to make a big comeback but they still will set you apart. They are a good dependable driving motor when they are properly built. I probably wouldn't over loom either option if I was building but if I could lay my hands on a good olds it would be my first choice for building one just because it is different.
I guess I might be one of a very few that think a stock J2 intake is nice to see on an old style build. Yes, it is heavy, but not common on a rod build. The intakes are cheap but a true J2 carb is gold to me. I would not buy a J2 with bogus carbs with idle circuits on both outboards. Dimpled covers are cool, but I only have ONE. With the s**** so high for the last few years, there does not seem to be many chances to pick up early Olds motors in my area (50 mile radius). I only seem to find 324's, and never find 371-394s. Going, I hope, in the AM to look "closer" at a 55 4dr ht parts car w/60,100 miles. The only readable door sticker from 1964 showed 11,200 miles, so I'd bet the 60k is correct. I got a feeling it's stuck, so I will bring a breaker bar. S**** being so high, the asking price so far is 1K complete car, or 800 for motor and A/T trans, which seems high on a gamble. Parting a car out is a pain, but might be a way to end up with the drivetrain for cheaper money. The 55 324 in my 32 is a 41,000 mile, sideswiped when almost new, stored since. Nice clean motor, and with a stick.
So in the real world, how rare is it to find a 57-58 original 371 block.......complete 371 J2 and last but not least, maybe I mis-named it earlier by calling it a J2r, but how rare is it to find a 371 J2 W-1? I know that I do not need all of the above to build my car, but wondering if they are still around......i saw one in the cl***ifieds and wondering if they pop up now and then and what's the price range? i did make plans this coming saturday morning to head out and see what the 394 deal is all about and how bad it really is.
Do a search on a C/L helper website like allofcraigs. I know I have seen J2's intakes/carbs on there. Hard to find an ad with good pics to see if the carbs are real, but worth a call I suppose. I doubt you'd find a true J2 engine that is do***ented, but that is not important to most people. Finding one with all the export parts, even harder. The orig painted bumped covers were supposedly bought up from GM and then chromed, and sold in aftermarket catalogs back in the early 60s. Figure 100 to 125 max on a bare intake. Carbs, like I said, are high on my list. Easily worth 200 ea even if the finish is not too good, IMO. I have a clean, matched set that were bought new in the late 50s "over the counter" by a local racer, and likely never run on the street. I would never sell those, even for 1k.
As far as "the original" j2, your right its not a big deal, just currious how m*** produced they were but as far as putting one in the car a 57 58 block would be a good start and go up from there, because in the replies i have ahd they may be the same motor, but different overall.
I'll see if I can find the engine number post done by the late hamber DON_WOW. He was the King of Olds here, still is, in many peoples eyes. I would think he listed numbers for the 371's, but not sure.
Well, no post 56 numbers on that thread. Maybe this list will help in case you run across any other Olds motors. 1949--8A1001 TO 8A193864 H PREFIX=HYDRA MATIC 1950--8A194001 TO 8A568689 H PREFIX= HYDRA MATIC 1951--8C1001 TO 8C287312 B PREFIX= SYNCHROMESH 1952--8R1001 TO 8R214478 1953--R215001 TO R549482 1954--V1001 TO V355083 1955--V400001 TO V983275 1956--A001001 TO A385513 ***ALSO, he said 54 head cast number is 7, 55 is 8, and 56 is 10.
all early Olds motors are esentially hot rod motors but if you go with the '56 you will get a lot of bonus points from the old guys when they see the #10 heads the early Olds' changed over the years and there are some aspects of the '56 that are a one year only deal, first year for the large journal cam so you can use the first series 371 cam, last year for the small diameter lifter so you can still use Chevy lifters, last year for the internal ballance, for instance(s) go fast and dress up parts might be easier to find for the 324 than the 371 or 394 a warmed over 324 will make a Model A scoot just fine
Thanks Paul, the reason I ask is because I did some poking around and have found one that has a ton of goodies that go along with it plus a cadi/l***ale 3speed, bellhousing and so on......everything to make it go, I'll see if I can post what's there, but alot of cool stuff including an edelbrock OL 496 intake with 4 Holley 94's, just alt of cool stuff!!
Here is what i have found......"For sale: Oldsmobile 1956 324 ci Enigine, $800.00 in machine shop work done. Block & Heads cracked checked. Crank 10/10 rods and mains. Engine is complete-tore down, standard bore. Balancer has been rubber re-vulcanized. Starter w/ rebuild parts, Sale comes with 1950 Old's 3 spd. manual transmission-complete, new sealed bearing and seals nice! 50's Olds Bell housing complete w/fork and new throw out bearing. 1948 Cadillac/Lasalle 3spd. transmission-complete, pair of original Hurst front engine mounts, Offenhauser Aluminum starter change over flywheel cover, Offenhauseer Oil re-location block, Edelbrock OL-496 Intake complete w/4 Holley 94's-linkage and fuel rail-NICE! Four chrome mushroom air cleaners, two extra Old's two barrel carbs-stock. Schieffer Aluminum Flywheel/Bronze instert-Nice! Rebuilt clutch and pressure plate. New set(16) kanter rocker arms, chrome Olds's Rocket valve covers. Sale somes with Hydro transmission-flywheel, and extra Engine w/Hydro-stuck. Original one in Hot Rod. Misc. parts, after market 3spd. sfifters, drive shaft for yoke. All goes-will not seperate. This will make the ultimate Hot Rod or Rat Rod Engine. Price some of these parts seperate. All there! Finish the machine work and ***emble and you will have one *****in Engine. I have spent five years gathering these parts, rare and hard to find. OVER $3,000.00 INVESTED PARTS AND MACHINE WORK. $2,500.00 Firm. Vintage Old's Speed Equip. Soso have seen a few similar ads like this on the hamb site....is this a reasonable price for what's there with all stuff included???
Well. here's breaking it down: Starter changeover $300.00 OL496 w/carbs $500-$800, depending on carb condition '50 Olds 3 speed $500-$750 '50 Olds bell housing $200-$300 '48 Cadillac 3 speed $150-$200 Hurst mounts $100-$150 Schiefer flywheel $200-$250 rebuilt clutch&p.plate $200 There's $2000 worth, even figuring on the low end of my estimates, not counting the actual engines.
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