4 and counting... UPDATE!! UPDATE II

i will agree with everyone else about the bolts and the bracket that these can be the problem but i have found that alignment issues aren't fixed by just the bolts or bracket. i have found that the problem lies in the nosecone itself. i have had to resolve in the past to machining the mounting pad on the nosecone down on the inside to bring the starter closer to the flywheel. but the least complicated fix is to get an original cast iron dual bolt pattern nosecone and install it along with the brace, 99.9% fix rate. check with a local rebuilder on the nosecone or buy a reman starter from napa with the correct nosecone. cant remember the part # but i believe they were off 3/4 ton trucks with a 400 engine (smallblock) early 70's with automatic*******'s. hope this helps michael

 

ive had the same problem for over a year. im runnin a high compressiion 383 chevy and i was eating up starters. i would get about a month out of them them they sounded like they were grinding my flywheel ring to peices.i used the knurld bolts too. and all the starters came from oriellys. thier socalled top of the line.one day my battery seemed alittle slow so i grabbed the charger and jumped it off. and no grindin sound.wtf.so i took that battery off and put the one of our nova on it.still no grindin sounds. seems when the car aint got a battery with 12.5 volts i will grind like hell. when it does its a good to go.i evenn ordered a brand new nose for it from my starter guy.and it still would grind. and that with shims anywhere and everyway.but when that battery would get low grind grind grind! if the car sits for a month and the battery aint up i put it on the charger. no problem. i have no clue why it does this but im happy to keep the battery up if it will stop that damn grindin!!!

 

I was having the same problem with my OT truck.Going through starters like cold beer on a hot summer day.Turned out,it was`nt the starter OR flex plate.
The block plate had very worn bolt and dowel pin holes letting the starter swing away from the flex plate.Replaced that and have not had a problem since.Just my 2 cents.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

 

I suspected my battery the first time and checked it at 12+ volts. I usually check my battery once a week as my normal routine. I still got only about a month out of the starter. I'm going to install those new studs when they come and will keep tabs on what happens. After this, I'm going to a new one. I went back to the rebuilt due to the warranty and my parts place didn't have a new one in stock.

I looked at my mounting holes on the rebuilt and honestly didn't see how the knurls would make a difference. Maybe these rebuilts are slightly out of spec. I'll know in about a month.

 

Fred, the battery would need to be load tested. The resting or no-load 12 volts doesn't really mean a thing, and actually it should be around 12.3-12.7 volts. You should fiqure a healthy no load battery to have 2.1 volts per cell. This fiqure is generally a known good battery at 90% capacity. TR

 

I appologize if this has bee brought up before. My first (and last) Chevy project was a 350/350 combo in my Chevy LUV, I chewed up so many freakin' starters in that thing until someone finally told me chevy starters had to be shimmed. Being a Mopar guy, I'd never heard of such a thing. I had an experienced chevy guy help me get it right, and the problem ceased. I used rebuilts too, and so was the last one. It's not the starter that's the problem, I don't think.

 

Yea, brought shims up in the first post, but thanks for the input. I never had to shim a new starter, but so far all the rebuilts need them. Another reason to get a new one.

While we're on the subject. Has anyone else noticed that parts stores seem to****ume you want a rebuilt whatever? I didn't know the first of these 4 was a rebuilt until I took it back. They just****umed I wanted the cheapest.

 

I had the same problem with a 383 stroker a few years ago. I kept going through starters like crazy. Tried different brands, different styles, stock style and hi torque. I almost gave up, finally tried a new flexplate. Come to find out my flexplate was egg shaped(it was brand new when I installed it). Fixed the problem.

 

everyone of TR's posts are right on, could be any or all of the things he mentioned

 

Go and purchase a NEW starter from General Motors.
Not exactly cheap ... but if solves the problem. I would get tired of replacing the junky not so rebuilt starters.



10455709 - Starter, Gear Reduction 153 Tooth L-98 Corvette Style, BRAND NEW. No core charge. This lightweight starter was introduced on 1988-95 Corvettes. Its internal gear reduction multiplies torque for fast starts. It weights just 10.14 lbs - 9 lbs less than a conventional starter. This compact starter also offers additional clearance for competition oil pans and chassis components. Use starter bolt P/N's 14097278 and 14097279.

I have one on BOTH of my 430 HP SBC engines ... for years.

Also buy the correct starter bolts ( listed above ) that are knurled ... and STOP the problem.

 

that is without a doubt, the best SBC starter made

 

Well, today the starter I got Saturday went out. I played around with my shims and bolts again and got it started. I went to the parts store and got another. It lasted 2 starts in their parking lot. Finally, my bud let me get a NEW one and it's working good. The physical difference between the rebuilt and the new one is like night and day. First thing I noticed was where the new one wasn't milled at the mounting flange. This is why the rebuilts needed shims. The amount milled off looks to be about 2mm. My bolts are still a loose fit in the starter, but the new bolts should take care of that.

I'm limiting my driving until they arrive. I don't want to screw this new starter up. Even my parts guy has come to the conclusion that the rebuilt and combination with the wrong bolts is the problem. Everything else has been checked. Wiring, advance and shims.

Somehow, in the back of my mind, I still think the rebuilt was the main issue. Until 5 months ago, I had never used a rebuilt. So, I play the waiting game.

Oh, the starter above looks nice, but mine is a staggered hole.

 

My new starter bolts from White Performance finally arrived. They looked to be a good deal. They are actually studs. The knurled portion extends longer that the parts store bolts and the shank does fit the starter holes a LITTLE better. There's still a hair of movement and I guess this is as good as it's going to get.

Before swapping out the bolts, I decided to add another ground. This one goes from the engine block to the frame. No excuses for not having a good ground now. Well, the studs went in and stopped at where 1/2 the knurls are in the block and 1/2 will be in the starter housing. It's a snugger fit than I had before, so things were looking good. I*****oned everything up and gave my car a try. She still spun the first time, but not as bad and fired up on the second try. So, I added a shim on the outside bolt to move the pinion gear a little closer. Still spun, then caught. I added another shim and finally a 3rd. She fired up and I cut her off and restarted a few more times. Out of 4 times, the starter spun only a little once. Not as bad as before, but a lot better.

I'm contemplating using a FOURTH shim, but I have NEVER heard of having to shim a NEW starter, much less using 4 shims. This***** has got me totally baffled. Where it's at now, I can live with it. But my next starter will either be a NAPA or a high torque mini. I think the issue may be the hair of clearance between the studs and the starter body. The spinning almost sounds like the starter is engaging, then losing power and the pinion is sliding back prematurely.

So, that's it for now. Thanks everyone for the help and advice.

 

Fred, IF I remember correctly, it's been a long time, I would use a heavy paper clip as a gauge for the starter alignment. They are about .060" thick. Also you might have to shim BOTH sides for the correct gap needed for proper operation.

Remember this is IF I remember correctly. It has been a long time since I worked on GM starters.

Len

 

Man, I've done the paper clip thing, the 1/8 gap thing and every combination of shims there is. It almost HAS to be the starter body or not enough torque. Using shims on the outer bolt, pushes the pinion closer for better contact. I may try 4, but that just seems too much.

Also, my flywheel is hard to turn by hand. So, another vote for torque.

 

Fred, something is still not right, and sadly this cold be doom and gloom-the Thrust Bearing. See if somehow you can try and pry back and forth on either the flywheel or up front on the balancer. You are trying to move the crankshaft back and forth like front to rear. You can also hook up a timing light, and race the engine up and down and hold the timing light with the trigger pulled the whole time. Hook to any plug wire doesn't matter. You will see the balancer move forward when you race the engine and move backward when you idle back down if the thrust is gone.

You can also drain and sift through your oil and cut open the oil filter to check for bearing material, TR

 

With all your new skills can you just weld it. Kidding. How is the schooling comming?

 

Never considered that. I'll check it out.

Readhead, classes are over for this semester. I closed with a 3.8 GPA. I kicked**** in Blueprint Reading with an A. Two more semesters to go.

 

If you just go in the parts store and ask for a Chevy starter you might get the wrong one. There IS more than one SBC starter. I fought the same problem for months. I have installed many Chevy starters and some have had to be shimed, some more than once but i always got them right.Then the starter on my '46 died and i went to a chain store and got a "Chevy" starter. It actually broke the nosecone, and after several months and many starters I gave up and took the car to the local "performance" shop. they****ured me it was "only a shim issue" and they'd have it fixed quickly. i told 'em "good luck". Four days later they call me and say they are stumped, they tried all the different shim combos possible, tried their "known good starter' and replaced the flexplate.....still the same. Then they took the starter AND the engine block number to the local rebuilders and the rebulider told them it was the wrong stater for that engine. they sold him one of their rebiults for THAT engine and I haven't had a problem since, that was at least ten years ago. They guys at the shop said there was a slight difference in the overall length of the starter compared to the one they were trying to get to work on the engine. The engine I have is a truck engine either '70 or '72 can't remember for sure. the guys at the shop said they had never known there was a difference inn SBC starters. I'd suggest taking your engine number to a good rebuilder or a knowledgable parts place and see what they say.

 

The flywheel and starter are '84 P/U SBC 350.

 

Issue resolved.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=762489