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Technical 40 Ford Brake Problem

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Strodder, Jun 6, 2018.

  1. Strodder
    Joined: Jul 18, 2007
    Posts: 337

    Strodder
    Member

    I'm working on a 40 Ford with disc brakes in front and a Ford Exploria disc brakes on the rear. I installed a CPP below the floor power master cylinder kit. I installed a 2lb check valves to the front and rear. I also installed an adjustable proportional valve for the rear after the check valve. I bled the brakes including bench bleed the master many times, but still seems like I'm getting air bubbles. FYI, I'm using a vacuum bleeder. The pedal and rod that goes to the master has the correct clearance.. I have brakes and it stops all 4 wheels, but it's a low pedal, and it doesn't return to the top. I have th pull the pedal up with my foot to release the brakes. This is the first time working on below the floor master cylinder..
    I'm stumped, any help would be appreciated.
     
  2. Put a good return spring on your Pedal first off. Low pedal compared to what? (pedal ratio plays a part)
    Go drive it, you'll find it may stop just fine without going to the hard spot with it just sitting still.
    The Wizzard
     
  3. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 6,751

    Boneyard51
    Member

    Putting a vacuum hose on a wheel cylinder bleeder will bleed the cylinder, BUT, it can allow air in also around the threads of the bleeder, giving the appearance of air in the cylinder. This is especially true with new stuff, not so much with older stuff. X2 on return spring. Bones
     
  4. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 22,282

    alchemy
    Member

    Since your pedal isn't coming all the way back up every time, you may not be letting the cylinder refill at rest.
     
    stillrunners and Pist-n-Broke like this.
  5. Sheep Dip
    Joined: Dec 29, 2010
    Posts: 1,572

    Sheep Dip
    Member
    from Central Ca

    Your booster also has a clearance requirement to the master cylinder. Those small dual diaphragm boosters can get mighty warm under a 40, with the added engine heat the rubber is a little more pliable, so you may need a little extra clearance just to get the proper clearance if that makes any sense to you.
    Quik test: Loosen your M/C at the booster and put a couple of 1/16-1/8 body shims and retighten and see if it improves any.
     
    olscrounger likes this.
  6. V8 Bob
    Joined: Feb 6, 2007
    Posts: 3,131

    V8 Bob
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Adding a pedal return spring (as already mentioned by alchemy) is very important because the booster internal spring is not designed to return pedals and linkage. In addition;
    1-Make sure the pedal is completely free to full travel when dis-connected from the booster.
    2-Check for full booster return by making sure the pedal can continue moving back when disconnected from the booster.
    3-The clearance between the booster output rod and master cylinder primary piston is critical, and usually around .040" unless otherwise specified, and this should be checked with about 20"Hg vacuum applied.
    4-The master cylinder should be able to fully stroke (open circuits) before the pedal bottoms out, to utilize the safety advantage of a dual master cylinder.
    5-Using the stock '40 pedal with it's approx. 6:1 manual ratio may be too much for your booster, as most power pedal ratios are in the 3-4:1 range.
     
    olscrounger likes this.
  7. 36couper
    Joined: Nov 20, 2002
    Posts: 2,014

    36couper
    Member
    from ontario

    I'm dealing with the exact same set-up in my '40 pickup. I bled the brakes 4 times and the pedal still seemed to go almost to the floor.
    I've double checked the shims in the front disk. They were all good.
    I changed the vacuum line for the booster and that helped a bit. I haven't tried it yet since it's blocked in at the back of my garage.
     
  8. trollst
    Joined: Jan 27, 2012
    Posts: 2,104

    trollst
    Member

    If it'll lift with your foot, put a spring on it to lift it, master cylinders don't push back enough and aren't meant to.
     
    olscrounger likes this.

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