I've got a line on a 409 for stupid cheep. The guy said it's in a 1970 dump truck and runs like a champ. I have not seen it yet so I don't have any casting numbers to work from. My question is assumeing it's a truck 409 and not a car 409, what was the main dif that caused the hp to be so much lower in the trucks? Was it just the grind on the cam that gave the truck 409s more torque and gave up hp in the prosess? I've never owned a "W" motor so I don't know much about them. Either way, the price is right so I'm going to try to get it. I'm sure it can't be that hard to wake it up and make some good power. It'll look good in my 29 roadster. Thanks HAMB!
You can build a good engine out of a truck core, but it's not cheap. Not many 409 budget builds. The block and heads are both scalloped out, but I think that only drops the compression something like .75 point. The trucks low compression is in the pistons, replace them, port the heads/bigger valves, good cam (Isky still makes them), do all of the detail work and your good to go. This started life in a truck. Larry T BTW, 1965 was the last year they used 409's in trucks.
Littleman, nice site... thanks man. Larry T, thanks for the info...thats a damn fine looking mill! If it's got low comp. it would be a good candidate for a blower or turbo. (if it's low enough)
Trucks have lower compression, milder cam, smaller ports in the heads. 348 3x2 intake will bolt right up to them and their a dime a dozen at the swap meets. Be a great street motor that will run on todays gas.
A friend of mine finally got his dream 409 out of a dumptruck just like yours. His was not running and had to bored .060 due to water in 2 cylinders and poor parts availability at the time. We stuck higher compression pistons and a mild cam in it when he redid it. With a single 4bbl it was fast as hell and would sink you into the seatbacks of his 64 Impala SuperSport. When we added a second 4bbl with an old Offy manifold it would smoke the tires from the driveway to the end of the block, about 100 yards. Got about 10 MPG with the single 4 and 6 with the double 4. YUMMY!
just nab it regardless of what you want to do with it. They are great motors with a LOT of potential. I'm building an 11:1 pump gas truck motor myself right now. Edelbrock makes a set of GREAT aluminum heads too for a bit of $$$
Hell yes! That's what I'm talkin' about. The old man I'm getting it off of only want $100 for it. He just wants the dump truck out of his yard. A farmer down the road is getting the shell to use the dump bed on something and I'm getting the engine. Good deal to me!
Most 409 truck blocks had a notch cut in the cylinder near the top of the cylinder to lower the compression ratio the best I recall 1940 Willys Coupe
Still wondering about a 409 in a 70 model truck, could be a 366 or 427 tall block. As far as truck 409s go, they have REAL heavy pistons to go along with the low compression. So unless you're satisfied with a 5000 rpm redline, I'd go with Ross or Bruneau Performance pistons. They're a ton lighter than stock (truck or car). Edelbrock makes a 2X4 intake for the standard heads that looks like it would be better than any factory intake. I've built several 409's and it's pretty easy to spend 3 or 4 thousand on top of your core by the time you completely go through it, balance and machine everything. Larry T
All I know is what the old mans boy (my neighbor) told me. I hope he is right. We'll know as soon as we pop the hood...
Hope the kid is right too but I'm going to doubt it until you confirm it. I don't see replacing a '70 truck motor, when it finally needed replacing (maybe '75) with a ten year old motor ('65) Might be, hope it is, but don't get too excited until you see it. Terry
I do too! The "kid" is about 55 years old, his dad is the one with the truck. I'm trying not to get excited but you know how it is. I would hope the guy knows the dif between a 409 and everything else. I'll let you guys know what happens.
Go to 348/409.com they have all the info you neede. The truck blocks are good and very buildable. The 333 truck heads can be worked to make good power. They are expensive to build 5/6 grand. But thats a real good build and probably 375 hp or better. I have a 348 in my 29 ford sedan I love the sound and shes fun to drive.
My 348 truck engine came out of an old fuel truck. Has a 409 oil pan, mix of car intake and exhaust manifolds with truck H20 pump, distributor & carb. The folks on 348-409.com set me on the right path to make it HAMB friendly. Even if yours turns out to be a 348, you still are getting an awesome deal!
If the truck is a GMC, it may be one of the GMC V6 engines that have valve covers that somewhat resemble the W-engine's. Many a person not familiar with the 348/409 has been fooled by failing to note the number of spark plugs. The V6 was available from '60-78 in various displacements, so '70 would fit right in there.
I am building a deuce roadster on a display chassis I drug to shows for several years. It has a built 348. The motor came out of a truck, and I worked with the techs at Showcars to get the right combination of parts. I used Ross pistons cut to yield a 9.5 compression ratio. Also Isky cam with hydraulic lifters and supposedly heavier pushrods, stainless valves and the other usual parts it took to make a reliable street engine. I'm trying a Offy 2/4 intake with 500 cfm carbs? I've done quite a few flatheads and the expense of this motor reached that level. If your gonna be a bear be a GRIZZ!
________________________________________________________________ I can see a possible problem here with this deal. I can also see it as an honest mistake by the non automotive enthusiast. I bought from a friend many years ago a, nice HD utility truck that supposedly had a fresh 409 in it. The guy he bought it from had the motor built and went bad shortly after having it installed. My friend was head over heels about the truck, I said I seriously doubt it's a 409......... why would someone do that. He bought the truck not running....I checked it out when he brought it home. It wasn't a 409...... it was if I remember correctly a big V-6. It had scallopped heads and covers and plugs roughly where they would be on a 409. I bought the truck and converted it to a SBC......and away I went. I do remember pulling the motor out, it must have been one of the heaviest motors I ever pulled. I'm pretty sure it was a V-6..... it is going back 25 years or so. Make sure you don't make the same mistake. Good luck.
I pulled the hood open on a mid 60's GMC pickup in a boneyard one time and about shit myself thinking it was a 348/409. That is until I counted the spark plugs. The big GMC v6's look just enough like the W motors to fool someone who doesnt look closely. That said I hope yours in a transplanted 409 and not the big 6. Good luck.
it could be a big v6 i have one in a 63' gmc 3/4 ton truck and they are massive. if it is a 348/409 and the oilpan hasn't been changed the dipstick should be on the passenger side. 348 was on drivers side. when i had my 60' impala with 348 sure was easy to weed out the bullshitters. "yep thats a 409 all right!"
The truck 348s allso had the dip stick on the same side as the 409s. That has fooled a few people for sure.The 348 cars are on the drivers side.
I used to think until about a week ago that the last year for a 348 was 1961, i was schooled and learned that they put them in trucks up through 1965 and the '65 model had the dipstick on the passenger side same as an '09, the only way to tell it apart was casting #'s or take it apart and measure things, so i'm not gonna say its not possible a 70 could have an 09, hope it does! 348-409.com can check all your casting #'s and there's some other place that starts with an m that has info, mercur, mercer's somethin along those lines....good luck!
Those V6 GMC had the spark plugs on the inside of the head. they are located in the spaces between the intake runners. V6 engines had displacements of 305, 351, and 478 cu inch. Torque engines got 4 mpg or less.I was at a auction Sat there was a 348 truck engine and 5 speed trans. engine was stuck water in oil pan. had a 4gc rochester carb with a built in governer. I quit bidding at $150 it sold for $175. Every one thought it was a 409 because the dipstick was on the pass side. The casting number was for a 62 thru 65 348. OldWolf
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