Hello and good morning. I was just wanting to know if the 409 is all that it's made out to be. I know of a few that put out some big HP. I just don't know much as far as what to look for and to stay away from. I'm just thinking about an engine for my new project. Thanks Bobby
I have read a lot on "W" head motors making some good power ,but get ready to spend some money to build one.Anything with 409 in the same sentence just got expensive.I have heard of the Z-11 heads going for as much as ten grand .On the plus side they look awesome in an open hood car and always draw a crowd at a show...
It's not a great motor, but can be made to put out some decent power. Just be aware that the power per dollar ratio is going to be at the very low end of the scale.
I drove a 64 Impala for lots of years as my daily driver. It was a 340hp 409 car and it had many engines over the years all 409s. They are a awesum engine based on the huge bore and short rods (stroke) basically a big blog with small block rods. I beat this cat to death and never broke the bottom end of any engine i broke. It was allways the valve train that gave up. I remember as a kid growing up in the gas station we brazed up many 348 and 409 valve covers where the rocker let go and the push rod blew thru the cover. That was the tell tale of all 409s to check and see how beat up the valve covers were?? Like the posts above said anything 409 today is priceless...i
Yea, I know about the big bucks. I just don't want to get the wrong one. I don't want to spend a lot of cash an have a big pain in the ass. I don't know if they were are all strong good runners? Also I have heard of the 348 with a 427 crank maybe this is a better way to go. Thanks, Bobby
I have owned a number of High performance 409s in the '60s & '70s. I drove them fulltime on the street for a total of about 5 years, and engaged in a number of "stoplight grand prixs". I schooled myself on them, and built a couple myself, for even more performance. Before I make any recommendations, what are you going to use it for?....cruising?....drag racing?....4-speed or automatic?....light car or heavy?
I think the small port motors.... 348 or the standard 340 horse 409 might be the best choice. The big ports would not work so well for low end torque, the much higher compression would not work with today's gas, and you would pay a lot more for a 409 horsepower, or 425 horsepower engine. The 348-409-Z11 427 series of engines was the forerunner to the 396-502 Chevy, so the cranks are adaptable. If you want big inches, and can't find a 340 hp 409, then I would consider the 348 with the refitted crank. Performance cams will be limited, and built for standard trans. They tend to idle really rough. You could probably get a custom ground cam, for use with an automatic. You will need to install threaded rocker studs, or use the old trick of drilling and pinning them. Any sort of perfomance cam, and you may start pulling them out of the heads. If you do decide to use big port heads, you will need the right intake manifold. The small port manifolds won't fit. Also you should know that if you use the early big port heads, ( I think it's pre '63 or '64) you will need to cut the valve spring seats deeper, to use performance valve springs, or they will bottom out. (coil bind) This will jerk studs, break pushrods, etc. (personal experience) Your choices for intakes will be factory single four and 3X2 for the low perf motors, and single four, 2X4 and cross ram for the big heads. I don't know what other aftermarket manifolds might have been made. For "effect" the 3X2 small port setups are not that hard to find, and look great! I think they were used with some automatics, too. If you decide to get crazy, the high performance connecting rods are weaker than the lopo 396 rods, and the hipo pistons are heavy on one side, so they tend to rock in the bores. Don't try for high RPMs unless you have built a better crank assembly! (personal experience)
go to www.348-409.com lots of info there. the big money is in the numbers matching game or the BIG horsepower racing shit. you can build a good street motor for not much more than a big block chevy. tripower and dual quads always draw a crowd!! the intakes are relatively cheap the carbs can be affordable if you don't care about correct #'s use the search function on 348-409 if that doesn't do it for you just ask a question on the message board, they won't bite your head off!!! offy, moon and others make cool finned valve covers, etc. don't be afraid to use a truck motor, they are cheaper to buy and can be used for a good street motor. i've got a 348 tripower with offy finned valve covers for the nomad in my avatar
My "409 phase" ended about 20 years ago. I no longer trade in cars & parts, but I'll keep you in mind for a few months. BTW, I grew up (and played with some '09s) in Danville, about 90 minutes south of you.
If you find a 340hp 409, I would just do a stardard rebuild, with improved rocker studs...and maybe add a mild hydraulic cam, the 3X2s, or finned valvecovers. That would probably be as simple and cheap as possible. If you take advantage of the torque, and keep the RPMs down, it should live "real fine....your 409". ~
Believe it or not I have a numbers matching 62 hi-performance 409 SS convertible that was bought new by my best friend. He died of leukemia in 1972 and I bought it from his widow. It's just rusting away in a field although I did take the engine out and put it in a 63 hardtop I have in storage. The last drag race the car was in my buddy asked me to drive for him because I was good with a four speed in those days. I nosed out a 375-396 67 Chevelle and broke the rearend at the finish line. I don't ever expect to be able to afford to restore it so at some point in the future I will offer it to a good home for the right price.
Can some one point me to some info on the 348 crank swap 427 455 ect Thanks Bobby I try the search with my mac but it doesn't work so well on here.
go to 348-409 and look up "canadianpontiac409guy" he (along with others ) has a lot of info on this swap
Jeff you've seen Neil's 32 in action? I've only seen it on trailers! Anyways, 409's might look cool, but they are pains in the groin and very expensive ones. We've had some severe cooling problems with ours, took a long time to get right.
Like others said, www.348-409.com They arent any harder to build than other non-SBC mills. The aftermarket for them is good,you will find plenty of vendors on the 409 site. All my gaskets and bearings came from my local Carquest. Waterpumps are hard to source but come apart and take SBC internals, an easy job. My punched out 348 ran a 425 HP 409 cam. It cost more than a smallblock to build. About $2500 total including minor machine work and paying for the shortblock assembly while at the machinist. It is still going strong in the Touring, GV Gordon owns it now.
Check out this video of our Imp in action at the bottom of the page. Turn up the volume! http://www.autowonderland.ca/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=8
A good source of info is www.348-409.com The W motor is one of the reasons I bought this. They have a certain mystique. It is amazing how many folks actually recognize it. Usually the question is "348 or 409?" It has enough power I have already broke it once.
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