Projects 41 Plymouth coupe question

Working on a 41 Plymouth coupe special deluxe. I’m curious, if by looking at the attached picture, anyone can tell me if this was an opera coupe or business coupe. If there is a difference ( I am new to this model of car). Also is the bracing pictured structural or could be removed without messing up the cars integrity. Has anyone encountered this before and what did you do?

 

As far as I know, the opera coupe designation only referred to the rear seating arrangement; opera coupes had 2 center-facing jumpseats but the car was the same. I can’t tell what your car may have been originally. As for the bracing, I would leave it (or replace it with something you like better), but I believe that there needs to be some kind of stiffening/diagonal bracing for the rear of the car.

 

Can’t help you with your question of coupe or opts coupe.

but that bracing does not look factory , I would get a service manual and confirm what is supposed to be back there and how .

 

The business coupe had a very large trunk compartment. The opera coupe had fold down jump seats that faced one another and a smaller trunk area. You should be able to tell which it is by measuring from the trunk braces to the front seat rear mount bolt holes. Business coupe only had a small package shelf behind the front seat and no quarter widow, if memory serves.

 

That be a business coupe! I've never heard of it being called an opera coupe. Maybe on a more "high end" car but not a Plymouth. Opera sounds so fancy.
All of that bracing looks factory to me, the spare tire would have been behind the passenger seat.
If you had to remove any of it I'd say take the two uprights out but leave the two diagonal braces alone with the package tray. It looks like the one upright is getting too friendly with one of your 4 link bars .

 

Looks like this on my -41 3w DeSoto.

 

The centre brace doesn’t look right to me as Vandenplas mentioned. I believe the business coupe did not have centre bracing as there was a throughway from the trunk to the interior which would allow larger samples to be hauled around on the salesman’s travels.

 

When I bought my ply.[35 yrs.ago] it came with those jump seats.They weren't mounted in the car.I used a normal back seat out of a newer car.I can't say if there is a difference between a reg. coupe or opera coupe.

 

Thats the way it was made . Ive got a Chrysler windsor 3 window, 1941 . Id remove it all and replace with some tubing, going from one side up to the package shelf and over to the other side and down to the frame . If not leave it you need support for the twisting the body and glass go through.

 

1941 plymouth 5 window business coupe.

 

Note how far forward the rear package tray comes on the car that Samurai Mike posted, the OP's tray doesn't extend as far forward from what I can see, I think the OP has a club coupe (or opera coupe, that's more semantics), business coupe has no back seat. There was no 3W coupe Plymouth in 1941 and no long door/short door coupe either, the outer body was all the same, the only difference was the length of the package tray and inclusion or exclusion of any kind of back seating, as far as I can tell.

 

That is a business coupe and the spare would be on the passenger side. I re-engineered mine and put a flush bulkhead across that area. It's probably somewhere in my build thread. I do think that bulkhead give additional rigidity to the overall body.

See page 6.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/41-plymouth-sb-mopar-engine-swap.498434/

 

The Standard book of Chrysler 1924-1990 only shows a business coupe or a club coupe. I suspect the Opera Coupe was probably a club coupe with the sideways mounted seats.

The roof line at the top of the rear window on a business coupe was 2"-3" lower then the top of the rear window on a club coupe, so the roof lines on a business coupe were more sleek then the club coupe. The rear glass on a club coupe is more vertical then the rear glass on a business coupe.

By looking at the pictures of your bracing compared to the bracing in the picture Samurai Mike posted, the package shelf on your car only comes forward to about 1/2 of the side window, but the package shelf on Mike's car comes to the front of the side window, and it appears the rear glass on your car is more vertical. The OP has a club coupe, Mike has a business coupe.

With the 46-48 Plymouth coupes, the business rear glass is a flat glass, but the club coupe glass is a curved glass. There is also a distinct body line between the roof and the trunk that does not exist on a business coupe. This body line is the easiest way to distinguish between the business coupe and a club coupe.

This 1st picture of my 48 Plymouth business coupe clearly shows the missing body line.
The 2nd picture shows most of the panel (the plywood was about cut in half on the right side of the picture to get it out of the car before my time) that sat at at the front edge of the package shelf on my coupe. On the right side (of the picture, but the driver side of the car) the spare tire was bolted to a cut off bracket, the shelving was on the passenger side of the car. Gene

 

Not applicable to that model year Plymouth. Plymouth did not use the no quarter window, very long trunk body configuration until 1949 models. The body type you describe was used on other Mopar nameplates in the early ‘40s and onward.

Ray

 

Was 'opera coupe' ever an actual body style designation by any manufacturer, or is it just a slang expression?

 

Here's a picture of my 1940 Dodge Deluxe Business Coupe back seat. The two Opera seat bottoms fold into the rear area. In the Standard Business Coupe, the spare tire is mounted in the rear area and is covered with a tarp.

 

nice opera Dodge...had one years back in NY...solid car..went to the New Jersey Rumblers president...He was a nice fellow....great cars..

 

Not from Plymouth.

 

Fun project..had one in 1971, sbc and a glide, put a tilt front end on it. Here was the early stage...

 

My previous -40 business coupe modified with a rear seat from a Volvo Amazon. Unfortunately I have no interior photos.

 

Yeah that’s what I was thinking. I may redesign it and move it back some to create more room behind the front seat. Thanks!

 

Thanks everyone!! I appreciate all the input. I’m excited to learn more about this type and model of car. I’ve always been a truck guy, but have always wanted an old coupe or wagon.

 

Would have loved to see how you did it. Was the factory bracing modified or moved slightly to create space for a back seat? Sick looking ride though.

 

All of the comments are interesting,
my 1941 (Canadian) Plymouth business coupe had the spare behind the driver's seat.
The passenger seat back folded ahead for the salesman to access his samples
and it was straight through from rear of the trunk lid to the front (only) seat.
Mine was radio delete and also wiper delete on the passenger side with a factory
sheet metal plate.

 

I might add mine was a 5 window model.

 

I've got 1940 Plymouths, not 41s, so there may be differences.
However, I agree that the Business coupes have a package shelf that extends to the back of the seat with provision for a spare. The "4-passenger coupe" as shown in the brochure in 40 had a seat back against the rear and folding bases facing forward. Very little room and uncomfortable in back, you are sitting almost on the floor with your knees against your chest!
I just took pics of my bodies, the 4 passenger is a bare body stuffed with parts but shows the lack of a package tray, the business coupe is fairly complete inside. Yours seems to have a different tray section! Since it's all primered, I am guessing it was a business coupe that someone cut out and moved back.

The business coupe tray frame has no cover, just the frame under the blanket, which is why you can spot sags between the ribs. It looks just like Samurai Mike's, with the tire well behind the seat.

 

Here is a brochure for a 1940, showing the 4 passenger.
This is the site, they do not have a 1941 brochure, only ads.
http://www.oldcaradvertising.com/Plymouth/1941 Plymouth/dirindex.html



The text at bottom right mentions the folding seats.
As you can tell by the ladies in back, there is not much room and spirited driving could cause head injuries! More like a sports car 2+2 where it's really for little kids.

 

@RodStRace try here.

 

JHanson, thanks. The link would be https://lov2xlr8.no/plymouth.html Lots of great stuff!
One more thing I can mention to ID the car.
I swapped the bodies on frames (had the 4-passenger frame redone, wanted the business coupe body).
The center mounting brackets on each side roughly below the B pillar mounts to a different set of holes in the frame sides, depending on the body.
This is the passenger side, looking up. Front of car is to the right. The mount is bolted in the 'front' holes, the 4-passenger location. Notice the business body mount aligns with the 2 holes in the 'rear' position. I still need to partially unbolt the body and move this mount back (among many other things!). Again, this is the 1940, I don't know if it applies to 41s. I'd guess the converts also used the 'front' holes, but haven't seen one in the flesh, let alone crawled under one.

 

Here is the frame when I mocked it up, the mount can be seen on the outside of the frame, just behind the center of the X-member.