...any differece between p***enger car motors, and motor home/RV motors?...cam change?...anything else I should know?
Yes there are differences in the RV motors.. more than a cam change. I googled it. some info http://www.rvmechanic.com/current_category.2178/Forum.55343/offset.360/forum_thread_full.html
361/383/413 Mopar motors are considered 'B' blocks while the "383"/426/440s are RB blocks. The head configuration in relation to the block and intake are different. It's all right here: http://www.allpar.com/mopar/383.html
Slight correction, 361/383/400 - B Blocks 413/426/440 - RB blocks (and the supposed "383" you are referring to above) MrG***er, look for anything funky coming off the heads above the water pump that may look like cooling lines, and ditch those heads for some 906's (affordable, decent, and plentiful).
In my expirence, an RV motor will have a top of the line short block [hemi or "six-pack" rods/crank] with standard heads on it. On the other hand, I'v seen a lot of "luxo barge" p***enger cars with good heads, but standard short blocks. If you have a chance to get an RV motor, it's worth picking up IMHO.... Also, if it's a real 413, it should be saved at all costs!
easy now boys I wrote the book on 440s , literally 413 426 and 440 are the RBs ( 'Raised B series, taller block)also in 59 there was a short production 383 with a 3.75 stroke (same demensions as the current 383 chevies Imagine that !!!!!!!!!!!) but most 383s are B series or low block engines and share that with the 350 (1958 for instance), the 361 and the 383. How do you tell if an engine is a Rb or a B series? Looking at the front of the engine look in front of the valley pan tray bolts on the left (drivers) side Is there a square pad machined smooth with numbers stamped on it? Then it is a RB series motor and has a 3.75 stroke. If not and it is just a rough casting with no pad then it is a B series engine with a 3.38 stoke. The RB 383 for the most part can be ingnored as it is not the best for a build and is quite rare. The 413 is a good motor and was even produced in the max wedge form for a very short time. Then it was overbored to 4.25 inches and became a 426. 426 Hemis , 426 street wedges and 426 max wedges share the same bore and stroke. There are a few different cranks (6 bolt and 8 bolt etc Hemi , six pack , standard engine and later cast cranks.) Use whatever you have because YOU WILL NOT BREAK IT!. Even the cast will stand 600+ hp. An Rv engine is often a good build. Most have the steel forged crank . Some 413s have wierd heads, especially in industrial and heavy truck applications and these heads are not good for perfomance. No 413 head is real good for perfomance exept the max wedge ones and the chances of finding a set of MW 413 heads is about like finding a case of whiskey in a Free Methodist church. (not impossible but highly unlikely) Some folks are into using the early 413 and 383 heads because of the closed chamber. I like this if they are my compe***ors. Then I know can beat them. In truth the early heads just dont flow well even when modified compared to the 906 452 326 castings of the late 60s and early seventies. On my flow bench no matter what we do the 452 s come out on top of the 906s with the 326s being right there as well. Some like it different and I guess they an have it that way of they want. i like winning. A 413rv or a 440 rv will have low compression but have no fear, pistons are available. 10 to 1s are the most practical. Kanter and Egge have the 413 stuff. and Sealed power , Kb and everybody in the business has pistons for the 440. It is really hard to get too much duration n a 440. it is easy to get too much lift. Over .540" should be avoided with iron heads even in ported form. Some Rvs have really good heads. They carry a version of the 452 casting which uses the small tapered seat plugs and they modify very very well. In fact I prefer them. I put a set on the Olly Charger engine for the Lemans project charger paractice car. I usually use 214 /181 stainless valves . Valve guides must be reduced in hieght for larger than stock cams to avoid the retainer smacking it or at least schmucking the valve seal. A machinist with a cutter for postive vavle stem seals has on that tool all he needs to do the job. I cut till the tool touches the rasised step for centering the stock valve spring. If dual springs are used that must be removed but it is a great guide for this valve guide machining operation so i remove it if necessary afterwards. Stock hyd rockers can stand a unbelievable amount of abuse. Heads on almost all big block mopars are oversize for ccs . Stock spec is 80 or 79.5 ccs depending on the year. As produced many are 90 to 92 ccs which makes getting the desired compression ratio impossible so that should be dealt with. A inexpensive 440 can produce from 450 to 560 hp without any exotic parts and do it forever! (TIP Do not use bronze exhaust guides. If they need replacing use cast iron sbi replacements. ) Also head casting numbers are visible under thevalve cover. We speak of only the last three numbers when we talk head castng numbers. Don
Great info! I'm in the 'starting dreaming' phase of putting 500 HP and 500 foot/lbs torque on the street (reliably), and so was looking at 500 Caddy motors, but this gives me another thing to think about.
Let's not confuse 361 and 413 truck motors with 440 truck and motorhome engines 440 truck and motorhome engines are basically the standard p***enger car 440 with extra water jackets around the spark plug in the heads and a slightly different water pump housing (larger p***ages inside) the 361 and 413 truck motor is based on the same layout, but has a different crankshaft (3/4" longer at the rear flange) way different heads and water pump, different exhaust manifolds, front sump oil pan and most special of all, a gear driven cam (spins backwards!) Here's what the water pump looks like http://440source.com/1001076.jpg here's a factory cutaway of the 361 truck motor Check out the water pump and exhaust manifolds
If you are a Mopar big block fan, I suggest you snap up any copies of Don's book you can find. It's a great read (I've read mine at least 4 times) and really lays out how to build big power without breaking the bank. I bought a 440 from a '78 model year Winne. The block was a '76 with no VIN stamped on the oil pan rail. It has a steel crank and will have the same rods as a 6-pack engine. Watch for the RV 727 trannies, though because they don't have a slip joint in the rear. Take a look at the exhaust bolts/studs on the heads. If they are straight across, the heads should be the same as a car head. Notice the different layout of the exhaust studs on the manifold pictured above. Those are the ones to stay away from. Notice the bolt holes are arranged in a straight line:
Cool, thanks for all the info...I have a chance to get both running motors, a 413 & a 440, real cheap, but they're both still in the motor homes,...I wanted something that I could install as is into a car and drive it, but now, I'll look first before spending the time to pull them out...
Don what are the 326 heads, I cant seem to find that casting number did you mean 346? Thanks for the great info also!!
If you can buy both mh engines cheap enough and have a few bucks to spare I suggest getting them....ya know they quit making them a while back ...!!! The 'other' truck/mh exhaust manifold can be very desirable as it is a one only item if you want to install a B-RB in a pickup and use decent iron manifolds. It is a centre dump with a fairly long drop. The comment regarding the long crank extension should be confined to pre-62 engines, I don't think it was retained after the flexplate was introduced. Also, check out this site................. http://www.diamondbackengines.com/forums/index.php?action=unread;board=6.0 .
The Jalopy Journal
