Technical 440, model A, steering, Headaches, help ?

This is one of those start on projects, then come the headaches which turn into migraines.

On my 31'tudor complete with a 440 and 727, every time I start on the steering I just get frustrated and have to walk away. 3 yrs now of walking away but it's to the point I've got to get this figured put.

The guys at Mopar decided that the driver side was the best choice for a starter then try to figure out how to get a steering box to fit, they moved the motor to the right. Thus my problem the 440 is big enough that moving it to the right wasn't an option for me.

It seems I'm down to 3 options, cowl steer (which I hate), one of the unisteer racks (again not a favorite of) or so far, the only thing I've found to be possible is I have a 57 ford box I believe but the guy cut the steering shaft at the box so I'd have to source another shaft.

I'm looking for ideas guys, I have a bwm zf box (cowl steer), got a corvair box, and the 57 ford box, also a 605 box.

I'm tired of chasing boxes and storing them on my shelf. SO I'm looking for ideas guys, anyone have a better mouse trap ?

Here some pics...

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I can't offer anything on the steering box but you get bonus points for using an RB in the car.
What are the front mounts from?

 

Just use a Mini High Torque starter and move on. I have headers in the space a stock starter used to be parked in.

 

Sorry, I forgot to attach the proof

 

That mock up shaft/tube looks a little fat. Will a 3/4" shaft clear the starter? Looks like you want cross steer. Put what ever box your going to use with the pitman arm where it needs to be for the right geometry and clearance including the drag link p***ing the oil pan, pulleys, etc. Depending on what you have for a column shaft you could place a U-joint right outside the firewall and start working the connection between the two.

 

https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/440-with-a-small-block-magnum-starter.283945/
Something about modifying a dakota starter to fit, alot smaller.

 

Why not use 3 U joints and a bearing by the middle joint?

 

F100 box?

 

You do know the box doesn't need to be square to the frame rails, right? A little tilt could make some improvements for ya.

 

I had a similar problem on my Model A with a nailhead. The starter is on the left side. I used a Steer Clear unit to get the steering shaft away from the starter.

 

Thanks guys for your thoughts and ideas.

@73RR the mounts are my own homemade set up.

@Pist-n-Broke I've got a mini starter too, but it puts the solenoid out to the left so even though it's smaller factor in the solenoid and length I really gain nothing. If the solenoid pointed straight down would cure 70%. Also yes I can tilt in, I'm just using one hand to hold gear and other to take pic.

@tomcat11 yeah it's 1" diameter, figure with mockup that extra 1/4" just might be a lifesaver. I'm trying to keep u-joints too a minimum if I can, if I do that it seems I'd need 3 ujoints from firewall to steering box.

@JohnLewis thanks for the link, I'd read up on it before.

@BJR as of reply to tomcat11

@Tim it's still an option.

@jaracer I could make that work easily, just the cost...

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Index-able mini starter, pointing the solenoid down, have the column end just past the firewall, shaft comes out to a support mount, to a u joint and then to the box????.

 

Is the engine offset to the right? I believe mopars are offset from the factory. My father offset the 440 in his coupe 1 1/2". He used an oem started for years. It was tight but it worked. Later he upgraded to a mini and had plenty of clearance. I don't remember the solenoid being an issue.

 

This is a requirement, it’s a starter for a 1990 Dakota with a V6. I use them on small and big block mopars. I’ve had one on my 12.5 /1 cr 500” 440 for 32 years without any issues. They give you room in all directions and spin the motor faster at startup. Get a used one from a yard for cheap.

edit; as Ive been thinking about this I believe the same stater is used on the Dodge Magnum V8s as well.

 

There's actually a bell housing available that repositions the starter to the RH side. Of course it's pretty expensive.

Have you got room for the oil filter? A 90° adapter can help. Points the filter down instead of sticking out the front. Better anyway.

 

In case you didn't notice this unit drops the solenoid to the Bottom side of the starter barrel, not out to the side.

 

Move to Australia maybe.

 

Reversed Corvair box in typical T bucket location?
Looks like it's going to take up exhaust space, but not sure.

The GM 70s box that shall remain nameless here and cross steers?

 

Take a peek here https://www.borgeson.com/steering-system-design-and-tech

 

Thanks for some great ideas !!

@1oldtimer I have looked at one's that will index the solenoid down, most indexable starters won't rotate that far and the few that will are ridiculously priced. BUT I'd like to stay Oem so I can pick it up at a part store, I do plan on long runs with this car.

@oldiron 440 that looks like exactly what I'm looking for! I've looked at later model Dakota but this one looks like it tucks the solenoid up nice and close to the motor!

@Pist-n-Broke yep! Sure did

@nochop thank you for the link

@RodStRace exhaust isn't a problem my only saving grace at this point.

So it looks like I'll be looking for a Dakota starter !

 

Hopefully it works out for you. A smaller starter with more clearance is better than trying to re-configure steering.

 

Note to self:
V6 Dakota starter.
Thanks @oldiron 440

 

@oldiron 440 just one question, i noticed the pic you posted has 3 mounting lugs, does the 3rd bolt hole mount cause any interference issues against the block ? Or does it just fit into the block recess ?

Thanks !!

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The photo is off Advance Auto website so it might not be the exact one, the v6 starter has just two lugs.

 

I can’t help you with any of this but kudos for cramming a big iron Mopar into the Model A!!

 

X2 /\ /\ /\
Small car big engine = hot rod.

 

How about a 60’s Mustang box like Pete & Jake started out using?