hey guys ive read here and there about building 454 cid small block chevys from stock blocks. im not realy so much intrested in how you go about building such a stout motor because i can just go read it somewere what i want to know is if any of you have had any experance with them?? pros and cons to the motor??? thanx tim
NO possible way to do it from a stock block. The cam has to be raised in the block to accomodate the longer stroke. They're tough as hell though! I wish I would've spent a few extra and built one of those instead of the 406 I have!
I want one.......Here you go...... http://www.theengineshop.com/newstuff8.shtml Mine is only 430 HP .
The hot setup right now is the Darton sleeve for the LS1/LS6 motors. You bore the stock cylinders out and resleeve with a 4.125 diameter sleeve. With that kinda CI you don't need too much more stroke. Since we're on the subject, I have a 2002 Corvette Z06 LS6 block that would be perfect for this resleeve...Race Engine Development here in SoCal is one of the leading facilities for installing the Darton sleeve setup.
Check out the videos on this website... http://www.thebe***t.com/ Sub 10 second runs with an LS1 in a Camaro! IMPRESSIVE...
Hey Charlie...I work at BadLS1 Racing. We have the fastest LS1 in the world...8.52 sec @ 163 mph. That's a 387 ci monster in a 2001 Trans Am convertible!! Also have a 625 hp Z06 and a 408 ci 800 hp 2002 Trans Am. In developement is a sub-8 sec. '93 firebird, should be good for 1400 hp and maybe some 7.50 slips. Give us a call 810-787-2960.
Tim, Why don't ya just build a wicked 327 for it?? might save a few bucks and trust me it will give you the power you want.
Was going that route in the roadster with a Dart little M block, i was just about ready & watching the £-$ exchange rate.....when all of a sudden Dusty's model A came up for sale, well you know the rest... i'm a ****er for impulse buying.
They have been available at your local GM dealer counter for several years.It's called the "Rocket Block".actually badged as an Oldsmobile block- its for all practical purposes a small block Chevy. the stock bore is 454 cu inches. with capability of a large overbore built in.They were 2900 dollars when introduced so hard to say how much NOW. theCamshaft bore was raised up to clear the extra stroke /and space required-so valve train is shorter/different angle, thru the pushrods.........
faltheadpete, what kind of money does it take to build one of those engines you talked about. I have always wondered what it takes to make that kind of HP... Anyone with info on how to build some strong HP out of a 327 let me know.. There is a certain Pontiac in town that needs some whooping...
GM discontinued the rocket block... You now have to go with the Dart or World Products block for any sort of sane budget (right around $2000 for a bare block, depending on options), if that's not an issue, you can drop the dough ($4000-ish) on a Rodeck or Brodix aluminum block! I was considering going with a large CID AL sbc, but then I got thinking... that kind of money for a 454??? I could spend a little more and have an AL BBC, which weighs about the same as an Iron SBC!!! I think that's gonna be the next serious engine I build, and it'll be BIG.... like 600 plus cubic inches!
Hey Boones. Ronnie (shop owner) has about $70,000 in the race motor. The C5-R block alone starts out at 427 ci and costs about $6400. Anyone with the financial means can have a complete C5-R motor (like what Earnhardt ran at 24 hr daytona) for about $35-40,000 in parts. The Z-06 has a head and cam package, forged rods and 11:1 pistons, N2O for good measure and some other good ****. He's got about $15-17,000 extra into that car. But, it's good for 10.50s and a top end over 200 mph!!
World of Outlaw Sprinters have been running them for a while. They use the tall Olds blocks along with their own combination of other performance parts (and secret sauce) to come up with 468ci "smallblocks" ! Nuthin like three wheeling it in the corners and carrying the fronts the length of the straights!!!!
unless you are an engine builder, dope dealer or do some other trade that earns you deep in the 6 figures how does someone afford a $70,000 engine. I was thinking $25,000 would be the range...
Flathead Pete, can you educate me (us) on what the different motors are (LS1 etc.) Like I have a 2000 Chevy pickup with a 4.8... what is that motor? I'm really interested in the development of these motors... for a salt car, that is. Sam.
The general description for this cl*** of engines is the Gen III. They share the same basic design features a**** each version with some variations. Your 4.8L is an "LR4". There is also an LM4, and LM7, and an L59 that are all 5.3L engines. The LS1 is a 5.7L aluminum engine (block and heads) that was used in all Corvettes and F-body cars. Early models were rated at around 325 HP and had EGR and air pumps. 2001 and later LS1s employed a new design in the camshaft that incorporated more lobe overlap which compensated for the need to add the smog equipment...no EGR or pumps on these motors AND the HP went up to 345. The LS6 motor is almost the same as the LS1 but has a more aggressive cam and better flowing heads. It was used exclusively in the Z06 model Corvette and was rated at 405HP. Hope this helps...
Hey I built a 434 ci small block out of a stock 400 block.I ran in to a few problems putting it together. Because of the stroke of the crank the top side of the rod hit the lobes of the cam even with a small base circle cam.So I had to clearance the rods.I used a 2 bolt block and ran splayed main caps. Also I block filled the lower half of the block to make it stronger. Heads are also a concern they better flow or it is a waist. I ran AFR 229cc heads. What are you putting this in?If you want to save some money I built this engine for my front engine dragster and never ran it.I spent over $13,000 five years a go.It has never been fired.I'ts for sale or trade.Let me know if I can help with any parts info.
Thanks CarlieLed! What kind of bore and stroke do the Gen III motors have? I'm curious as to what the best way to build a 301 cu in GenIII would be... big *** Turbo... Sam.
[ QUOTE ] The LS6 motor is almost the same as the LS1 [/ QUOTE ] Charlie, I thought the LS6 was a hi-po 454 bbc from the early 70's?? Are there 2 kinds of LS6's? you know your **** dude, thats cool............
[ QUOTE ] World of Outlaw Sprinters have been running them for a while. [/ QUOTE ] when did they become legal,? the world of outlaw stuff i have dealt with had a 410 cubic inch with iron rod rule
check with Lunati and see if they're still making the stuff to build a 440" sbc. i remember SS/DI mag doing a build-up on one, guess they had problems with head design(wouldn't flow enough)..
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] World of Outlaw Sprinters have been running them for a while. [/ QUOTE ] when did they become legal,? the world of outlaw stuff i have dealt with had a 410 cubic inch with iron rod rule [/ QUOTE ] Racefab You're right...! They aren't legal but some of the guys (cough-cough "a-hem" kinser(?)1997?) got caught with the 468 with ***amium rods and had to conform to the 410 rule! But they really tore up the track...!
[ QUOTE ] Thanks CarlieLed! What kind of bore and stroke do the Gen III motors have? I'm curious as to what the best way to build a 301 cu in GenIII would be... big *** Turbo... Sam. [/ QUOTE ] The LS1 has a dispacement of 5.7L or 346 CI. Stock compression ration is 10.1:1. Bore is 3.897 inches with a stroke of 3.622 inches. The main caps are 6-bolt, 4 bolts go up into the block just like earlier SBCs, but the Gen III block is designed with deeper skirts which allows 2 more bolts to come in from the sides of the main caps. This adds some stability to the aluminum block. B&S...yeah there was an early version of the LS6 and it was a BBC. Leave it to GM to use the same designation again and add a bunch of confusion. They coulda just called it the LS7...
Those 454 crate engines that you can get from Bill Mitchell Racing are using stock demension blocks. No raised cam or anything like that. They are taking a World Products block and boring it to 4.250 and running a 4" stroke. Same specs as a 454 BBC.
You're right about the World Products blocks Mikey, but that leaves the area between cylinders so thin, that many builders think they should be avoided for any type of forced induction or heavy nitrous application. Another thing to consider is that you may nod be able to bore the block any more than that either, so when the cylinders are worn, throw it away and get another $2000 block! The Dart blocks have the raised cam, and thicker cylinder walls, and many people consider them more suitable for any heavy duty use.
I agree 100%. If you read the specs on that block, I think the max bore is like 4.200. There is no doubt that the block cannot be machined with a 4.250 bore. I'm pretty sure Dart is making a twin to the rocket block. Probably a little more affordable too.
with all of this machine work will it still retain small block tendencys? big blocks are usaly ***ociated with torque and small blocks with screamers with all the mods with it still be a good rev hard motor? im asuming yes because of the sprint car use but thought id ask anyways tim
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