460 swap into my 58 fairlane.. need help fellas!

hmm i havent replaced them since i got the motor back in february, no. good idea to do that though. but still that doesnt hide the fact that my motorcraft carb was leaking pretty bad :/ been lookin on ebay for some. only problem is i dont know what i should get. i asked it on the 460ford website, ive been lookin at 1406 edelbrock ones.. no idea what to get for an intake. im no millionaire, i just need the basic non egr one and i'll be fine. there were some good affordable ones on ebay, dunno if a 1406 will go onto them though

 

The Edelbrock Performer intake will work fine. If money is real tight, just get a factory intake from a 1968-1972 Tbird or Lincoln 429 or 460 with the 4300 carb. That is, non-EGR with the square pattern (all four carb holes the same size). It's heavy, but cheap and will get you going.

The basic Edelbrock 1406 carb or a Holley 1850 will work fine. You don't need more than that now.

As for the EGR intake, you could also plug the exhaust source hole by tapping it and using a hex-head plug. I've done it. You still need an EGR spacer that is not corroded so the carb will seal against it and the spacer will seal against the intake. That is a simple way around the intake issue.

Keep changes real simple until you get it started.

 

I suggested you use FPA shorties months ago. U r diong this the hard way my
friend. I have a couple intakes laying around. I'll take a look and get back to you.
I thought I explained it all to you in the pm a few days ago.
Hope you get this done.
Ron

 

i ordered an intake and im bidding on a carb right now on ebay. things should be good very soon, just a matter of waiting for the shipping and everything, and saving up paychecks. however i just got an offer for a trade for my motor... from my own dad! i'll prolly start a new thread about that because im trying to weigh my options out with that.. but for now im havin fun building this 460, its keepin me busy at least

 

its been about a month since i updated this, and i figured im making SOMEWHAT slow progress, but its good enough to post an update...


so i got my performer intake, made a big difference in look and everything, (no egr stuff, bolted right in, very fast and easy installation), then i got my new 750cfm carb too from ebay, rebuilt and tested, looks awesome on my new intake. got some nice chrome valve covers too and a new water neck while i was at it.

tried turning it over... nothing happened.

so i was bummed and figured i'd work on the interior for the time being. got the back seat out and ripped out the crappy bucket seats i put in when i was 16. they didnt look right and i hated them, so im definatley putting the bench seat back in, but im gonna reupholster it. (be prepared for many questions in the upholstery group here on the hamb lol). gonna order some dynomat or some sort of nice quality sound deadner. gonna get some sheet metal soon and fix some rust spots in the floors.

i already have the rebel wiring harness too, (read through the instructions and it LOOKS simple, me and my dad will be tackling this in the next week or so i imagine after i get some extra materials to make the job go faster).


my uncle came by yesterday and asked my dad about the '58 and if its running yet. then he offered his .2 cents and said, "hmm.. well, some of these 460s, the firing order is counter clockwise", and a lightbulb went off in my head. I wired it up CLOCKWISE. found that out today and i rewired the spark plugs in the correct order!

my dad was super excited and said "jason can we please start it i wanna try it out", he was more excited than me, i dont have any headers or anything yet so i wanted to be patient and wait, but i thought why not give it a shot.

put the key in and BAM. that thing woke up the neighborhood im sure. it ran for a good 3 seconds before i turned it off saying 'alright alright thats good enough dad, wait til i get some headers and get the cooling system together' (radiator and fan and etc.)


so thats the progress so far, i'll have to take some photos of everything. even videos too.

 

Good deal, hey Jason I asked about the C4 you have. Are you interested in selling it? I am looking at a case fill type for a small block ford (302) with a 157 tooth flexplate. PM me if your interested in selling.

 

unfortunatley i sold it just as quickly as i put up the ad on the hamb, a local guy saw it and got it as fast as he could, really sorry :/

on a side note, i posted a wanted ad, about headers for a 460 since crites is expensive and takes months to ship. i got a pm and a fellow hamber has some from a '59 edsel wagon he had with a 460. i wanna get them but before i do, i know nothing about edsels. will that year and that application work with my '58 ford swap?

 

Its good to see you finally got it running. That 460 will be a world of difference after the Y-block. Not sure about the headers, I think an Edsel is a Ford with lock washers. ...Oh wait, thats a Mercury... never mind

 

just curious but what is this 'world of difference' i'll notice from going from the 292 to my 460? i'll admit when it started i let out the biggest "WOW", because it sounded amazing, when im ready to drive it that's another story lol.

im about to buy those exhaust manifolds though, any one wanna chime in on whether or not the 59 edsel wagon has a similar front end as the 58 fairlane before i buy em?


i also think im gonna tackle the beginning stages of wiring today.... i saw in an article i should mount the fuse box from the rebel kit to a piece of pvc board?? any tips before i start wiring it up?

 

The world of difference will be in the amount of power & torque. If I remember correctly the 292 is around 145 hp, the 460 is much higher depending on the year. When I went from a 292 to a 429 in my '56 F-100 the difference was quite a lot. The 429 would slam me back in the seat & roast the 295/50-15s while the 292 could barely make them squeal.
As for your fuse box, mount it where you can get to it easily when the front seat is in. If you ever have to do any troubleshooting or modifications this will be important. As for the PVC board, I never heard of that, but since I'm getting ready to wire my '51 F1 I'll definitely think about that. Thanks for the idea.

 

thanks for the feedback on the C4. The Edsel headers might work. Get some pics if possible and compare to your engine bay and some of the pics others have supplied on this thread. Then you might be able to make a decision on whether or not to try them. IMO the Edsel and your Ford are probably the same frames.

 

i should really change the title of the thread to '58 ford custom build', but i figured i havent posted any photos in a while.. might as well go ahead and post some updates..

i got some rubberized undercoating and coated the flooring with it. i had grinded and got rid of all the old tar that was on it, it was horrible nasty stuff, but it eventually all came off. i only did the front portion of the interior today. im gonna buy some dynomat or some sort of sound deadner soon and put it down. (after i cut out some bad parts that have rusted through and put in some nice new sheet metal)






my old wiper motor hasnt been cleaned up yet, i know it looks a little dirty in here now but its cleaner than what it was thats for sure.




here she is, she's been in place for a while now. im gonna get the crites headers eventually.. just to much money and i got other things i need first. i ordered the scarebird disc brake swap, it should be here next week i hope.. then i gotta buy all the parts for the swap too.






new wiring from rebel wiring. i have yet to get started on this because.. well.. i have no idea how or where to begin. yes the instructions are super clear, but i dont know what im doing :/ im waiting for my dad to help me out. but he's disabled and always sick, its been over a month since i've got this, im just trying to be patient i guess. it'll be re-wired soon enough.




this was the nasty old wiring, all tangled up and couldnt tell where anything went.




this is the man im doing it for now. grandpa JD. he bought the '58 for me, always helped me. he's my motivation for all the money im putting into it right now, and for being patient no matter how long its gonna take until this 58 is back on the road again.




here it is as of today. sitting and waiting. in my mind i've set October as the date it can hopefully be driveable. but i got many more things to do.

wiring, drive shaft, radiator, headers, redo the interior, new upholstery, replace floor pans/ patch panel them, fuel lines, gauges, brakes, throttle linkage, shifter... etc.





just another shot of the interor. and yes, i know.. dont get mad but i was young when i painted it, so i know i got overspray on the windshield and windows. hopefully a steel wool pad and some gasoline cleans it up? (something my dad told me?)





im trying my hardest to do it right this time. i've cut through the field to many times disregarding all the important stuff. well its bit me in the butt now, and its definatley time to redo everything right since its all apart now.

 

real quick question.. but just curious. can i wire my car... OUTSIDE of the car? like.. my ignition switch. instead of driving the 10 miles to my grandmas to get started on the rebel wiring harness.. could i start with wiring up the stuff to my ignition switch, and my solenoid and stuff? or is it easier to do it all while in the car. reason i ask is because like i said, i dont know where to start or begin.. my dad is the only one who can help me and he's always sick. so i figured maybe he can help while here at home instead of going over there with me while he's sick.

 

I'm guessing you mean crimp on the terminal lugs? You could, technically, but you'd have extra wire after you run everything permanently. I just looked at my Rebel Wire 9 + 3 and it looks like there is enough wire to run all circuits with a little wire left over. If you don't mind having some extra wire, which could be bundled with Tywraps, then you could get away with it. It won't look as tidy but its up to you. Just make sure which group you're working with. Just work one group at a time from the fuse box out, circuit by circuit. It doesn't matter which group you start with but its easier to keep track of that way.
Also, keep in mind you have to pull the wires through a hole in the firewall so no components could be connected. If you lay out the harness on a flat area like a couple of 4 x 8 sheets of plywood end to end and run the wiring roughly to where they'd go on the car, you could lug the wires, temporarily connecting the components in the process, and mark each group yourself. i.e. solenoid, horn relay, engine stuff, ( alternator, sending units etc) lights and so on. Since this is your first time running a full harness, it would be easier to familiarize yourself with the wiring if its all laid out flat than trying to crawl in and out of the car a bajillion times. Once you have everything lugged and marked, put it in the car. And remember, tywraps are your friend! They're cheap and can really help while roughing in the harness. One thing's for sure, once you get this puppy wired you'll have learned way more than you thought you might. Good luck!

 

I agree with OahuEli and have a few more suggestions:

I would have ALL of the body parts back on the car, except for the hood. That way you could run the wire looms to where they are suppose to wire up to.

I wouldn't put lugs on just yet, as you might have way too much extra wire at their destinations. What I would do is to label where the various groups of wires go using masking tape or some stick on labels. Then start to route the wire looms through firewall, etc. When they are routed accordingly, then anchor the wires down to fenders, firewall, etc. with proper fasteners. Then with the looms all routed, you can figure out the needed lengths of each wire, and add at least 2 inches of service loop for each wire. That way you will have some room for error.

For the lugs, bullet connectors, I would strip each wire end, then TIN the ends with solder. You will need a soldering iron and some resin core solder. Heat the wire end up with the iron and while the tip of the iron is contacting the strands of the wire, apply the solder to the point where the soldering iron tip is contacting, not to the tip! When the solder starts to flow then apply the solder down the strands of the wire.

This TINNING operation will give you a firm surface to CRIMP the bullet or lug connectors. (I myself solder the connectors to the wire, then crimp the insulator of the lugs)

I am suggesting the TINNING approach because in the past you have had NOT SO MUCH luck with wiring.

Good luck

 

both of you two have been super helpful for the longest time and i appreciate everything you guys say. after reading over the instruction book for hours on end last night in my bed room, looking at the wiring harness, looking at the little wiring kit i bought from walmart for 20 bucks with all the connectors and stuff, i decided to just wait, take it to my grandmas, put it in the interior and wire everything that way.. with my dad's help. its better to be safe than sorry i suppose..

ive just been getting bored latley waiting to save up more cash from work to buy more stuff, and waiting on shipping of some stuff.. like the disc brake from scarebird and i also bought a wiring loom from the hot rod company, its the asphalt coated loom, 10ft 1/2 thick. i just wanna do stuff, hench me working on the interior right now and coating it with the undercoating and cleaning up all that surface rust.

 

I hear ya, building on a budget can be a tedious process. On the other hand, a few bucks here and there every payday adds up eventually. Same for working on the project, each hour or two gets you that much closer. Its just hard to be patient when I see it out in the parking lot.
As for taking the harness over to the car, thats probably a good idea as you can trim the wire to fit as you install it. This will make for a cleaner looking install. Hell, you never know, you get this one done and someone may call on you to help them and next thing you know you're a wiring whiz!

 

Thanks for the compliments! Help to others are what we are on this forum for. As was mentioned before, take your time and do it right. When you look back you will probably say: That wiring job came out great and was simpler than I thought.

The connectors to the wires are 99% of a successful job. Do a good job and the wiring will be reliable for years to come.

Glad to be of help.

 

well here are some more updates, i finally just dove into the wiring project, it isnt TOO hard, but there are some things im confused with, but i can google them im sure. i did have a quick question.

for my instrument cluster, i wanna make all the wires go into a plug, so if i ever have to remove it, or remove my dash, i dont have to take a wrench or a socket wrench and spend 10 minutes unbolting the little nuts, this way i can just unplug it and bam its done.

can i do this with my ignition wires too? everything runnnig from the key, just hook them into a single plug and unplug it if i wanted to remove my dash again in the future? or you really cant do that with ignition wires?

here is a quick video i did yesterday, the pics are from today. tomorrow i'll try finishing up the wiring in the engine compartment and test it out to see if it'll fire up.

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Yes you can run the instrument and ignition circuits to plugs, just make sure the plugs are rated for the circuits you are using. I'm not sure exactly which plugs you can use, maybe contact Bob at Rebel Wire and see what he says. Thats a good idea by the way, crawling under a dash to work on individual connections can be a pain. As a matter of fact, I'll look into it, as I'd like to do my instrument cluster the same way.

 

yeah i'll look into it a more, i'm probably just gonna wire everything up normally, give myself a few extra inches of wire left over, then when the time comes i'll cut them and plug them, that way i can make sure everything is going to work right. i know i've said it but thank you, you and d2 willys sure are reliable when it comes to a reply on this thread. i still wish i can rename it 58 ford build thread, ha the 460 isnt exactly a hamb friendly engine.

 

I'm glad I can help a little and I'm looking forward to seeing how your wiring comes out. Once you've done it once or twice it gets easier and you get a 'feel" for it. As you connect each component you will get a better understanding of how each system is works. If you make a drawing of each circuit it will help down the road if you want to change anything around.
One suggestion I'd like to make; when you start to power up the wiring, do it circuit by circuit, one fuse at a time, checking things as you go. That way, if there is a problem its easy to isolate and correct. Good luck!
Regarding the title of the thread, I initially checked it out because I'm a Ford guy and the "460" caught my eye. Glad I did! As for those who get their panties in a bunch over it being "not HAMB friendly" enough, don't sweat 'em. Its not important enough to be concerned with.

 

You may want to look into pigtails for your plug/socket ideas for the switch and cluster wiring. Here are some links:

http://www.sherco-auto.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=PIG

http://www.repairconnector.com/categories/RELAYS-AND-PIGTAILS/

http://www.elecdirect.com/catalog/3ac067c5-3b75-423a-bb30-740b1e8dda51.aspx


These are a few links, you can google "replacement automotive pigtails"

Using pigtails will be the simplest for you, since you will just be splicing the pigtails into the wiring harness, instrument cluster harness, and ignition switch wiring. No special crimping needed.

If you are a little short on dough, just let me know how many connections on each pigtail you need and I can build you up some, for the price of shipping out to you! (My job allows me to get samples and building them would be very easy.) You may want to include wiring colors, gauge of wire, and their respective functions, that way I can get you proper current capacity of each connector/contact. PM me if interested.

 

When I get around to rewiring my car I plan on using Amphenol connectors. I don't know of anyone who has used them on a car build.

I used to work for a military contractor and we used these on all of our electrical connections. They are a screw in plug that is water tight. You could have all of your under dash stuff going through one connector.

Other names for them are bayonet connectors.

 

i googled these connectors and ill admit i sort of got fascinated by them. has anyone on the HAMB used them? if so i'd love to see some photos. i can really just imagine the ease of removing my gauge cluster, ignition wires, and other wires as well. it'd come in super handy i bet.

 

I've used Amphenol connectors/Cannon plugs in my job as a marine electrician. They work great, just get the crimp pins and not the solder pins, those are a major pain. A lot of the generator manufacturers use those style and it makes for a nice neat connection.

 

They are sweet, but ya' need some specialized tools, to properly crimp the male and female pins in the connectors, plus the tools to remove said pins, from the body of the connectors................................

 

Amphenol connectors, price?? These are great connectors, but you can still use other style connectors that are of the seal type for much less money.

Jason: Did you read my post about offering pigtails for your application!!

 

d2 yes i read what you wrote about the pigtails! i think i might just get them here locally though rather than waiting lol, i appreciate it though.

man what a rough day... but it turned around like 20 minutes ago. so i had to work my 8 hour friday shift getting carts all day in the california heat, pretty tired and worn out, customers angry for no reason at me... get home.

"hey jay, i rewired it like the guys said on the HAMB..... well..... i had fun and got it running finally, god damn its a beast" thats what my dad said!! he said it fired right up and runs smooth as can be! im jealous he heard it before me, well him and my grandmas whole neighborhood!!

then i go in my room and find the disc brake swap kit from scarebird! gonna go get the parts tomorrow so i can work on it next week and get everything hooked up.

so... just gotta finish up the wiring, do the disc brakes/ brake lines, figure out the assembly for the accelerator pedal and stuff, radiator and driveline.. rear brakes.... maybe im not to far from my goal now. hopefully the ball starts rollin faster now