Projects '47 Buick Super Sedanette project

I checked the starter wiring, and found the main coming from the battery was a little loose. Actually, the jam nut that holds the post tight was loose. Starting to think the starter is fine. I also added a redundant ground strap from the engine to the frame. I'm thinking the problem is that it's overheating. The original gauge is weird, with 220* to the far right, but the little hashmarks don't go that far. I think I was reading it as 195*-200*, but it may be as far as the needle sweeps. I could smell anti-freeze and there was steam coming out of the overflow tube. The plastic wiring harness cover laying on the engine melted, so it got hot. Starts right up after it cools down. My import dual fans w/o a shroud must not be enough. The radiator core looks to be about 22.5" X 15". I was told it was a Corvette, but it looks to be about the size of a '62-'67 Nova. Will start looking for a fan/shroud combo and hope it pulls more air than the one I was trying to use. Looks like I won't be driving it to Symco this year.

 

I put a cheap Champion aluminum radiator in my 49 Buick with a 472. Keep it cool no matter how hot it gets. I run an engine driver fan with a shroud.

 

@BJR This was a new, unused radiator. I don't see how to put a bigger one in here. And the way the engine is mounted, I'm not seeing how a mechanical fan will work either. These are things that were done by the PO. I'm thinking a shroud w/ better fan should work. The shroud will have to be trimmed, as the steering box is close to the lower left side of the radiator. I'm looking for something that will work, but may have to bend one up myself.

 

I have the same front suspension as you do and I had to make a shroud. I started with a universal kit from speedway and had to modify it. Try to get a high flow thermostat also, has a much bigger hole in it when open.

 

I suppose it can be done, but the fan is higher than the radiator. The engine was mounted high in the chassis by the PO, because it barely clears the A-arms. This is a wide engine, as you know. I ordered a shroud w/ the biggest electric fan I thought would work. If that doesn't work, I'll look into a mechanical fan. I always prefer that anyway,

 

OK. New fan & shroud installed. Still getting hot. Found the lower radiator hose is cold. New water pump, new thermostat, 20-year-old radiator that never had coolant in it until a month ago. Ordered a high-flow thermostat, thinking the new one is defective. New parts on the way.

 

Do you have a spring in the lower hose to keep it from collapsing?

 

No, but I didn't notice anything on the outside of the hose being off, like being out of round or something. And it felt like it wasn't collapsing inside. If this doesn't fix the problem, I'll look into it further.

 

It may only collapse when hot and at hi way speeds, when the water pump is sucking hard.

 

I haven't read the whole thread but the only way a lower radiator hose in a pressurized system can get "sucked flat" is if there are significant restrictions in the radiator or block....which creates pressure drop. Otherwise, the inlet is pressurized at operating temperature. My biggest problem with these old Buicks has been air flow. I haven't found an electric fac that can push enough air through the bulbous engine compartment to keep it cool. I ended up with mechanical fans on the two I've owned. The hot air rises and gets trapped under that hood unless you canforce it through and out.

 

@rockable the hose wasn't flat - at least on the outside, and it was cold. And the hood wasn't even on the car. The new electric fan's diameter is larger than the height of the radiator and is supposed to pull 2500 cfm. One thing at a time. New high-flow thermostat is first. Then check to see if that worked. If not, on to the next fix. I appreciate all the input from all of you.

 

Got my new high-flow thermostat installed, even though they didn't send the gasket I ordered with it. The lower hose heats up. So, I have flow now. But it's still running too hot. The shroud is aluminum and has a 16" fan that's supposed to be 2500 cfm.
When I took the thermostat out, I noticed the coolant level seemed low. Used a funnel and added over a gallon into the engine. Thought maybe it was air locked or something. Spun the water pump by hand and saw the coolant moving. Not sure what my next move is.

 

How much coolant do you think you have in the system? It probably needs 2 1/2 gallon, or thereabout. If you don't have that much, you have some air somewhere. Use an infrared temp gun to check and verify temperatures. The temperature at the bottom of the radiator should be close to thermostat setting or below. The top of the radiator will be hottest and what the gauge is reading.

Also, leave you should observe the coolant moving while the engine is running. Leave the cap off, start the engine and let it run until the thermostat opens. You can tell when the thermostat opens by feeling the top hose. It will get hot. Now, look at the coolant in the radiator. Is it moving? If so, good. You could still have air in the system. I bought a funnel from NAPA that has adapters that connect to the radiator and allows it to burp and you can add coolant when needed. Keep an eye on the temperature and good luck!

 

The radiator is lower than the engine. The crank pulley is closer to in line with the radiator than the water pump pulley is. I'd have to measure hood clearance, before I know how big of a mechanical fan I could use. Building the shroud would be an adventure. My current shroud fits very well, and the 15" electric fan should cool it. Although the radiator is probably smaller capacity than the original Cadillac. I don't think I can fit a bigger radiator, without MAJOR surgery.

I noticed a small crack in the gasket on the radiator cap, so I put another on it. Both are old/used. I think I'll buy a new one. I filled more coolant into it by disconnecting and pouring into the upper hose. It seems better, idled longer, but still not running cool. Temp gauge is hard to read, but showed it sat close to the hottest mark for a while before it crept past it. Not sure if I still have air in the system or not. The upper hose is the highest part of the system, so would it make sense to add a fill there? Maybe one of the old Ford tanks from the 60's? At least I'd know if it has air in it then. I don't think it's an engine problem like a head gasket. Ther's no water in oil/ oil in water/ no steam from tailpipes, etc.


This is the fan/shroud I'm using. Made by KKS. Has good reviews. I had to cut a piece out of the lower left to clear the steering box, which is very close to the radiator, but I don't think that should change its efficiency.

Ideas: Ford expansion tank, water wetter, aluminum radiator, extra cooling capacity with a remote smaller core/fan. I'm running out of ideas.

 

dave is there a bleeder spot at the top of the cooling system? if the engine is higher than the radiator you are never going to get the air completely out of the system without some type of bleeder at the highest point. also a lot of times when you are having a problem like this drilling a small hole in the edge of the thermostat to allow air/coolant to flow by helps

 

@cshades I don't really have that. that's why I was considering adding a Ford style expansion tank. It would give me a filler at the top of the system and a place to bleed the air from, as well as a little more capacity. Maybe there is an in-hose filler I can add? I haven't looked that up yet. The thermostat has a bleed hole in it.

 

You have a big problem. The top of the intake should not be higher than the coolant level in the radiator. The little hole in the thermostat is to allow coolant to gravity feed into the engine, yours is actually doing the reverse. I'm not sure you can ever get and keep the air out of that system as it sits. My 455 Buick engine sits with the water pump about 1/3 up from the bottom of the radiator. It's going to overheat until you get the air out.

 

The PO did the frame work and engine install. I'm just trying to make this thing run (did that), and drive (it does). I've got a few things coming to try, before I just quit & let the next owner worry about it.

 

Is there any way you can move the radiator up some? The 47 Buick has an awful big hump in the hood and I would think there should be room to go up some.

 

Damn. Still problems after I added an in-hose filler to the upper hose to get rid of the air in the system. I used Hyper Cool to raise the boiling temp and installed a new cap with a temp gauge in it as well. It got up to about 230* and started puking out the overflow. The only thing left to try is a Spal fan, which might pull more air than the one from KKS. If that doesn't work, then it would be a new (bigger) radiator & mechanical fan w/ shroud. Getting frustrated.

 

Sometimes it is easier to just redo it, than to waste time and money on a bunch of work arounds that don’t fix the problem. Get a new taller radiator and mount it higher than the motor, use a mechanical fan with a shroud.

 

Cool car! I'm sorry I didn't read the whole post, but one thing I noticed was you said it overheated with the hood off. Has it overheated the same amount with the hood on? My OT 69Plymouth always over heated when I worked on it and decided to take it for a test ride without putting the hood back on. The air just happily goes over/under the rad instead of through it. Also, make sure you have sealed up the core to radiator to fan really well to give whatever fan you run the best chance possible.

-rick

 

^This. Use that tall hood to your advantage, and considering the original radiator probably took up some space in that hood bulge, it would be a good idea to go back to that setup.

 

Well, I had to try. I've got a filler up high in the upper hose to get all the air out, added HyperCool, new radiator cap(s), a full coverage KKS aluminum shroud w/ a 16" fan, upgraded to a 16" Spal fan, and it still gets hot. The fans look similar, but the Spal's motor is twice as deep as the KKS. It ran about 13-15 minutes and started puking out the overflow. Got up to about 230*. I was hoping to have it driving this year, but it's looking like that might not happen. The 22 1/2" X 15" 3 row core size just must not be big enough for this extra-large engine. I was told it was a Corvette radiator by the PO, but according to my internet research, the size comes out to early Nova w/ a V8. I understand Caddys run hotter than SBCs.

On the bright side, I took it down the block and back for its first drive out of my driveway. Seemed to ride/handle/steer decent. Other than scraping the front bumper guard on the driveway exit. Needs some brake adjustments, but it stops OK.

Next up is a bigger radiator and a complete revamp of the radiator support which also serves as the front sheetmetal mount. I kinda needed a better way to adjust the front fenders anyway. They weren't fitting so well, and they need to, so the side opening hood works easily. If I can sneak it a little forward, I can go a little wider with a crossflow. I can definitely go taller, as it currently is under the fender line. There is room to go above that, behind the front of the hood. That would probably mean using a downflow. So, do aluminum radiators cool better than brass? What's the consensus on how many rows works best, etc. I know a few on here have said go to a mechanical fan, but I'm also reading where people have removed them in favor of electric and had better results.

Also, I need to add big block springs in the front. As much as it pains me to say this- it's too low. If I'm going to do that, I might as well replace the old A-arm bushings, and whatever else needs replacing. This also means my other projects get pushed back, and I'm really wanting to get started on my '49 Merc.

 

Before you rip it all apart you might want to check for combustion gasses in the coolant. A bad head gasket or a crack somewhere could be causing it to heat up fast. The test kit is not super expensive and handy to have on hand.

 

@RMR&C Seemed like good advice, so I bought a tester. Ran the test 2X. However, I'm using the in-line filler in the upper hose. Seemed to stay blue for a bit, but the coolant surges up and screws the test up. So, inconclusive? Maybe drain a little more out of the system & try again? Thinking I can't use the radiator cap, as it's lower in the system. I did see some smoke from the left tailpipe at start up. Looked white to me, but that's hard to tell as well. I'm leaning toward head gasket, but dreading taking the engine apart. Either way, I'm in for some work. Replace the radiator/fan/shroud & fab up a new front support - and find out it's a head gasket, or tear the top half of the engine off for head gaskets/crack checks/resurfacing - and find out it's the radiator capacity. Feeling frustrated.

 

OK. Tried again in the radiator. Pretty sure it was a clean test. The fluid turned green. Looks like I need to do some engine work.

 

Where’s Sam Barris when you need him. Hehe.

 

Yikes, that’s not good.